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Zabalaza : languages

Written by tha - bang from the blog Movies and Things with Thabang on 18 Jun 2008
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Very insightful doccie played last night on English dominating and killing our mother tongues,did any one see it? It played on SABC 1,jst after uGugu no Andile last. It tried to investigate why we rather communicate more in English than our mother tongue and what has that done to our psyche, our way of life,heritage and self esteem.   The most poignant moment for me was when the guys were asked to recite the months of the year in their mother tongue and only one person could do it,and he struggled. I couldnt even remember all of them, myself but I dont even need to think about them when its in English.
Its a shame though if you come to think of it, or is it the natural order of things.? If our mother tongue is not used in business and general communication such as ads, public signs and soforth.Is it a natural thing for it to die out?cause its not seen to be profitable and not part of the mainstream. Plus in a multicultural socety isn't it a good thing that theres a language that we can all use to communicatewith and understand?Then one could ask does that language have to be English?
Are we doing a deservice to generations afterwards,cause language is one of the few things that is rooted in our culture that survived apartheid. But is having a boer attitude of always imposing your language on others the answer though? just questions whose up for a debate

118 Comments

Toxic
18 Jun 2008 02:52

The most poignant moment for me was when the guys were asked to recite the months of the year in their mother tongue and only one person could do it,and he struggled. I couldnt even remember all of them, myself but I dont even need to think about them when its in English. 

That's me right thuuur!!

Missed the doccie. i can speak sesotho and do so most times anyway. it's just that English has really become Universal and so much easier to communicate in to people who aren't members of my tribe. i can't see a way around this other than having a South African population that can speak ALL official languages..and then some.

At least i don't dream/think in English...

carino
18 Jun 2008 02:56

Reply from: carino 6/18/2008 10:45:41 AM

I felt so proud of myself yazi.... I mean, as English as I am.(lol).. the only Mzansi languages I cant make conversation in are tshiVenda and xiTsonga. And I know all my months in seTswana & seSotho, I can count up to a zillion in seTswana, and up to i dont know in Xulu(my mixmasala of Zulu & Xhosa, so says you, Nonny).

I felt so guilty, though.. for always correcting people's gramma errors..... I mean, really now, who said English is the order of the day??

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 02:58

My take is,if the languages have a real and tangible value to us.They will never die out,but as soon as they loose that. They will die out. Then the question becomes how do we quantify value and how do we see its tangibility (if theres such a word). 
for me it starts at home ,if parents do not see the importance and value of teaching their own kids their mother tongue and not talking to them in it. Then why should the kids grow up with an inert value of their home language.
i think currently we want the schools and government to do everything for us but we are not doing our bit to safeguard the well being of our kids,culture and heritage.thats my take

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 03:07

I mean, as English as I am.(lol).. the only Mzansi languages I cant make conversation in are tshiVenda and xiTsonga. carino im so jealous of you, ive decided to learn on other language except from my Setswana. Cause eish anything outside of English and Setswana is all greek to me.
Toxic ur right ,maybe we all need to learn the other peoples languages so that we dont have to resort to english only as the middle ground language.

Renegade
18 Jun 2008 03:09

Eish, i was traumatized after all the shooting that was going on in Gugu no Andile, so i went to sleep. (violence seems to be the theme in these Shakespeare in Mzansi things ne, but i guess Shakespeare's plays were  violent).

Sounds like the doccie was nice, i wish i'd watched it. 
My greatest concern is for my own language, Venda, which i feel will die a silent death, thanks to people like me. And that's why i've decide to do something about it. The thing about being raised in Gauteng, Soweto to be precise, is that you speak isJoburg, which is basically light Zulu. I picked up some Sotho and Tswana and all these languages coz Venda's were such a minority, and the result was that my Venda took a dive. I was young then, but I know better now, and i'm making an effort to speak Venda to my family all the time, and to learn more about my culture,, coz i know nothing about it. Slowly but surely.

monwy
18 Jun 2008 03:16

i' m afraid, we gonna go back three spaces again to the fights and the hatred phakwathi kweZulus and Xhosas, 
i know uRomeo and Juliet mara y didn't they use some other languages instead of the two they are using. i think it wouldn't be bad if they used tswana and zulu or sotho and xhosa, just not Xhosa and ZUlu.

blakrose
18 Jun 2008 03:19

Yah neh yesterday's doccie required introspection fo sho. I speak Zulu and Setswana as they are are my home languages mara the honest truth is counting  in both languages is a mission as for the months i don'y know, i cant even try because i do not know. I was personally embarrased izolo, ngoba truth is other nations really take pride in their languages. I have friends who know how to speak zulu, xhosa and setswana maar when we address each other it is in english. WHY ?? heh haai abelungu are going to controlling the world and us as africans if we do not stop think and change direction

Toxic
18 Jun 2008 03:22

and i'm making an effort to speak Venda to my family all the time, and to learn more about my culture,, coz i know nothing about it. Slowly but surely.

Mee too!! Around the time of the x-attacks, i learnt what all the body parts in sesotho were. i only knew le ngwele. i'm on a constant mission to learn proper sesotho, can't write an entire paragraph in that language and not mispell certain words.

i was so ashamed to discover that someone of Xhosa origin writes better SeSotho than i do...i who claims to be a descendant of the BaSotho tribe..nc nc nc. Even white people that learn our languages, learn the MAKOYA thing and we who have been speaking it since birth, go ahead and spoil it!

I felt so proud of myself yazi.... I mean, as English as I am.(lol).. the only Mzansi languages I cant make conversation in are tshiVenda and xiTsonga.

Don't i wish i was you right now!

carino
18 Jun 2008 03:28

Ferikgong, Tlhakole, Mopitlwe, Moranang, Motsheganong, Seetebosigo, Phukwi, Phatwe, Lwetse, Diphalane, Ngwanaatsele, Sedimonthole.

That's January to December in Setswana. Im tight like that!

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 03:28

Thank u so much for this blog Thabang, yazi I evn said a little prayer izolo and I prayed u would do a recap, dankie san.

Now let me sya, mina i am proud ukuthi my home language always takes priority than English, even at home we seldom communicate in English. And I know how to count in Zulu and I know the months of the year excellently in Zulu.

carino
18 Jun 2008 03:31

Nngwe, Pedi, Tharo, nne, tlhano, thataro, supa, robedi, Robonngwe, lesome, somenngwe, somepedi, Sometharo, Somenne, Sometlhano, somesupa, Somerobedi, Somerobonngwe, Someamabedi, someamabedinngwe, someamabedipedi, someamabeditharo, someamabedinne, someamabeditlhano, someamabedithataro, someamabedisupa... I can go on and on......

I feel so proud.......

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 03:34

but i think right now, not enough is done to encourage venacular languages to be spoken amongst our people generally.if one switches on tv most programmes are in english including our local productions, our presenters mostly use english and ive seen that yo tv is trying to change that.but if vernacular is used more i thnk it will stay.

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 03:34

I was also proud to see the survey that proved that Zulu is the most spoken language after English.........even though English is still in the lead, at least there is a light at t end of the tunnel showing that there is still a great deal of people that haven't abandoned their home language!!!!

Toxic
18 Jun 2008 03:36

Ferikgong, Tlhakole, Mopitlwe, Moranang, Motsheganong, Seetebosigo, Phukwi, Phatwe, Lwetse, Diphalane, Ngwanaatsele, Sedimonthole.

That's January to December in Setswana. Im tight like that!

u'd betta not have googled this!!

Strolicious
18 Jun 2008 03:37

mina im ZULU(Umageba)i tried to speak sotho and my friends laugh at me bathi i speak  sezuthu...abt da months thing.i was schooled ko lokshini but still i dont know them but i can count ngesizulu.....Carino uyisikhokho.

people help how do i post an article.

Cande
18 Jun 2008 03:37

Ferikgong, Tlhakole, Mopitlwe,moranang,Motsheganong,Seetebosigo,Phukwi,Phatwe,Lwetse
Diphalane, Ngwanaatsele, Sedimonthole...
Wow..am soo proud of myself...

Toxic
18 Jun 2008 03:38

I was also proud to see the survey that proved that Zulu is the most spoken language after English.........even though English is still in the lead, at least there is a light at t end of the tunnel showing that there is still a great deal of people that haven't abandoned their home language!!!!

It'll probably be much higher after those Zulu men forced us to learn ndololwane!!

carino
18 Jun 2008 03:39

Tox, believe me, i didnt google this..... I know it... you can ask me anything in setswana I'll give it to you.... Im quite cultured... pity i dont look the part.

Toxic
18 Jun 2008 03:40

Pherekgong, Hlakola,Hlakubele, Mmesa,Motsheanong,Phupjane,Phupu,Phato, Lwetse,Mphalane, Pudungwana,Tshitwe 

Months in SeSotho..am i good or am i good?

Cnglemother
18 Jun 2008 03:44

Lawd i missed it Thabs and i had made a promise that i was gonna watch it, I am hardcore xhosa but the januay & february ish in xhosa is still a mission. I dont even know one month in xhosa. Thank gaad i still have my EC ties to give my son a language foundation even though its very likely he will turn out to be another Pysfo (Sipho Ngwenya).

belz
18 Jun 2008 03:45

im too embarassed to even say anything, i dont even know which language i speak. Joburg is such a bad place, i mean i find myself using 3 lagnuages in one sentence.

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 03:46

mina i am proud ukuthi my home language always takes priority than English, even at home we seldom communicate in English i think thats one of the best way of preserving a language starting at home

Ferikgong, Tlhakole, Mopitlwe, Moranang, Motsheganong, Seetebosigo, Phukwi, Phatwe, Lwetse, Diphalane, Ngwanaatsele, Sedimonthole.  Carino you are such a show off im green with envy

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 03:50

but if vernacular is used more i thnk it will stay.
But tha - bang, people don't encourage the usage of the vernac and that why the guy that said: "Three generations from no, will only know how to speak Zulu andnot their home language" coz our home languages are always looked wdown on. I'll give u an example, u know here at TVSA, I am often critised for blogging too much in Zulu, and the irony is I have NEVER *feel free to testify boggers* NEVER refused to translate the vernac if a person asked me to, but ke instead of bloggers asking for a translation, they instead ask me to minimize the vernac, I mean WTF, 90% if not 99.9% of the bloggers at TVSA have an indigenous language as their home language, yet Englsih is the order of the day, why people why?????

Fluffy Head
18 Jun 2008 03:50

I do not believe that any of our African languages are dying down or even close to that.... Xhosa is my mother tongue and I speak and write it very well, I cannot even dream of going on in English to my family. And I know a lot more people who speak their languages well.
I do think that reciting the months of the year in your mother tongue is irrelavant. I mean even my grandmother does not really know it liek second nature, she has to think about it. But she knows it and so do I.
Plus the world is a global economy now, so you gotta understand the importance of English as a general medium of communication. You can speak to a guy in Japan/France or Norway now solely because of English. Just imagine how difficult it would be to run businesses and do international trade if we did not understand English and could nto speak it well.
Both English and the other African languages should be regarded with the same level of importance....African Language: for your cultural pride; English: To communicate with everyone else who does not understand your mother tongue.

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 03:51

I meant - "Three generations from now, will only know how to speak English and not their home language"

carino
18 Jun 2008 03:51

but you know.. I found myself doing a lot of my self-conversations in Xhulu/....i couldnt believe it... talking to myself in nguni?????

Pooky
18 Jun 2008 03:54

Ferikgong, Tlhakole, Mopitlwe, Moranang, Motsheganong, Seetebosigo, Phukwi, Phatwe, Lwetse, Diphalane, Ngwanaatsele, Sedimonthole.

That's January to December in Setswana. Im tight like that!

uJanuary, uFebruary, uMarch uApril, uMay, uJune, uJuly, uAugust, uSeptember, uOctober, uNovember noDecember

Thats January to December in Mother City Xhosa. I'm tight like that!

Toxic
18 Jun 2008 03:55

okay, i googled that. 

Carino, was joking maan about the googling.

Cande
18 Jun 2008 03:55

Carino you are such a show off im green with envy 

It was me tha bang, please envy me too...LoL

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 03:58

Joburg is such a bad place, i mean i find myself using 3 lagnuages in one sentence. i hear u, but it has worked in my younger brothers advantage. He is fluent in 3 different local languages.which is not bad considering when we got to joburg he only spoke setswana.so jozi aint that bad

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 04:07

"uJanuary, uFebruary, uMarch uApril, uMay, uJune, uJuly, uAugust, uSeptember, uOctober, uNovember noDecember
Thats January to December in Mother City Xhosa. I'm tight like that!"
Hey wena Pooky, stop playing the fool and learn the real months of the year in ur language, and plus too for us, we are lucky we have google in isiZulu, isiXhosa, Afrikaans and Sesotho, aren't we damn lucky guys????

carino
18 Jun 2008 04:09

EyoMqungu, EyoMdumba, EyoKwindla, UTshazimpuzi, UCanzibe, Isilimela, EyeNtlaba, EyeThupha, EyoMsintsi, EyeDwarha, EyeNkanga, EyoMnga.

Now thats Jan -feb in Xhosa..

Okay, that i googled.

carino
18 Jun 2008 04:12

Januarie, Februarie, Maart, April, Mei, Junie, julie, Augustus, September, Oktober, November, desember. 

ye-ye!

Miss K
18 Jun 2008 04:22

Yho hay mna guys im too embarrased to even participate in this blog. I do not blame my parents coz they did what they thought was best for their little gal by sending me to 'multi-racials' after i passed sub B. Im an adult now and the only thing 2 do is taking responsibility and teaching myself proper Xhosa and other ven languages. Im currently learning Venda (u know i luv me some Venda brothers LOL) and i told my Sotho colleagues 2 speak to me only in their language unless of coz we're in a meeting. Im proud of u Carino sisi, ure a real motivation serious!!

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 04:23

I do not believe that any of our African languages are dying down or even close to that
i dont know if u live in an area where theres one predominent language, cause peopel in those areas may feel that their language is safe and secure.But in places like jozi its a different kettle of fish. 
Im not argueing that english is bad or should not be used,like nonny says here we are conversing in english on tvsa. im arguing that we've put english onto a mantelpiece at the expense of our own home languages. 
if fluffy, ur okay with being able to recite the months of the year fluently in english but cant do that in vernac and u dont c a problem then thats u.but i think theres something wrong with that,wrong with not havng our mother tongue not being second nature to us but english being excatly that.
and yes cande im also green with envy at you too.

realist
18 Jun 2008 04:27

Personnally, I prefer English all the way. It is easier to understand each other when conversing. You at work and all of you are 100% ethnic black and all born here in RSA. You attend a meeting and all concerned speak different South African languages. Which one will you settle for to run the meeting?

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 04:27

"EyoMqungu, EyoMdumba, EyoKwindla, UTshazimpuzi, UCanzibe, Isilimela, EyeNtlaba, EyeThupha, EyoMsintsi, EyeDwarha, EyeNkanga, EyoMnga.
Now thats Jan -feb in Xhosa..
Okay, that i googled."

@ Pooky, please follow in Carino's footsteps so that one day u won't need google, because all this info will be in ur had.

Now Now tha - bang, my bank is ABSA, and I have never desired to use any other bank *despite their ridiculou bank charges I remain eternally loyal to ABSA.........LOL*......u know I didn't know up until yesterday that we are the only bank that gives people a language option at the ATM's, so basically with all the other banks is the Queens language waya waya *even no Standard ngiwuthembe kangaka?*, shame man, we really have a long way to go in this country!!!!!

BEEbabes
18 Jun 2008 04:28

Hello the bang, I feel welcomed on your blog, ta!   I missed it, do you know who produced the doccie?

Anyway, somehow I think also Apartheid regime has to be held accountable (it's a lame take, I know but bear with me)

I am from Mams ne, ekasi, and at my high school, we had Tsonga, Tswana, sePedi, Zulu, English & Afrikaans.  Now my home language is Ndebele, I know zilch of that language and its culture, why? Because, Ndebele was not an official language then, it was replaced by Zulu, I had to study Zulu.  I greww up visiting my gran, who is Swazi, but bought a farm with predominantly Pedi people, so Pedi dominated, I know Pedi culture, I identify with it, but Pedi's shame, they are not accepting people, and it's a shame.  I fell in love with a Pedi guy from there since my childhood and we were destined to marry ne, but jo, it didn't happen because of family etc.  He had no backbone, I'm glad it did not happen, he was not man enough, back to the subject.  Do you remember uAugustine Masilele reading Zulu news and the king "Zwelithini" had a flap with that, so Augustine had to leve that job?  I have a problem with that, language is meant for communication, it doesn't matter how well I can recite izaga, izisho etc.  If people do not understand what I mean, then what is the point, besides, elokishini, you learn so many languages, you can never master any one of it because we mix them up a lot.  Now English is very accomodating, if you can check the dictionary, words are being added to accomodate other languages etc.  English, slang, Afrikaans, Italian, French etc.  And English is very different American, Australian, UK & Canada.  

I encourage ama-bloggers to read 'the CAPITALIST NIGGER" book, it is excellent.  We ought to know ourselves, value ourselves, teach our children history, not to dwell on it, but to learn from it.  To be unique yet identify with global trends.  To self love, then to love fellow neighbours etc.  Language is important, but if you excel in one language and you cannot converse glabally in it, what is the point?  

I encourage my girls, to try and speak in a language their next friends speaks, be it English, be it afrikaans, their dad speaks to them in Ndebele, I speak to them in their homework language, if its Afrikaans, that night it will be Afrikaans, otherwise I use any language in the house that I know, uma ngibhayiza siyancedana, and by that I really get along with so many souls la emhlabeni, I can never tell you how Ms Social competition I've won, every where I go I am just able to strike up conversation and I learn a lot from different people.  The only thing I lack is the language of love.  Sometimes being in this relationship bores me to hell, but my man knows that I'm a crazy little BITCH - Babe In Total Control of Herself.

Pooky
18 Jun 2008 04:30

 shu in afrikaans ook  nogal??  Ek is baie trots op jou Carina, ek wens ek kon ook so baie taale praat soos jy. Maar waar het jy all hierdie wonderluke Suid Afrikaanse taale leer praat ??

Cande
18 Jun 2008 04:30

we are the only bank that gives people a language option 

Hayi Nonny, i think istandard bank/FNB does that too...just not sure which one

Hlehle
18 Jun 2008 04:31

EyoMqungu, EyoMdumba, EyoKwindla, UTshazimpuzi, UCanzibe, Isilimela, EyeNtlaba, EyeThupha, EyoMsintsi, EyeDwarha, EyeNkanga, EyoMnga.

To me Carino July is EyeKhala in my Xhosa. Eyentlaba its new never heard of it.One other thing in us Xhosa people, Xhosa's frm Transkei speaks different Xhosa frm Xhosa's frm Republic region. Why i say that i always struggled to understand sum of the words Xhosa's frm Transkei say while they'll always correct me when i say sumthing. They say that, its not the appropriate word i shud have said that.

I find it so difficult to speaks to them coz i have to ask every now and then, what is the meaning of that. If u get me in this one.They speak deep Xhosa while mna ndizithethe nje simple Xhosa frm the Township.They'll say its because i grew up in townships than rural areas.

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 04:34

"Im not argueing that english is bad or should not be used,like nonny says here we are conversing in english on tvsa. im arguing that we've put english onto a mantelpiece at the expense of our own home languages."
I completely agree tha - bang, I have no beef with the Queen's language, my problem only lies when English is being put on a pedistal as if it's THEEEEE language, imagine how nice it would be if people applied the same pressure in knowing indigenous languages, just like we know English, oh what a wonderful proudly South African country this would be.

Toxic
18 Jun 2008 04:38

Standard Bank has a language option!

carino
18 Jun 2008 04:38

To me Carino July is EyeKhala in my Xhosa

yes, Hlehle.. my google search said Eyekhala/Eyentlaba. So i just deleted one.

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 04:40

"Hayi Nonny, i think istandard bank/FNB does that too...just not sure which one"
Kungconoke Atleastike Carino..............LOL

Hey Hlehe, I wrote the message in ur GB ekuseni b4 I saw this article, I'm so glad tha - bang did it!!!

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 04:47

OK OK Toxic and Carino, I always knwe this ladies from SANLAB *or whatever the abbreviation is*, seldom have their facts straight..........LOL.......just kiding but I heard it from her izolo stru bob that ABSA kuphela has language options, eish I'm sorry ngaleloputha!!!!

awelani
18 Jun 2008 04:59

@Rene: i'm making an effort to speak Venda to my family all the time, and to learn more about my culture,, coz i know nothing about it. Slowly but surely.>> >> Phando, Luhuhi, Thafamuhwe, Lambamai, Shundunthule, Fulwi, Fulwana, Thangule, Khuvumedzi, Tshimedzi, Lara, Nyendavhusiku.  Hope this will also help u in murathu wanga (u do what "murathu" means nhe), lol.

BTW, dat's jan to dec in tshivenda.

realist
18 Jun 2008 05:02

Yho hay mna guys im too embarrased to even participate in this blog. I do not blame my parents coz they did what they thought was best for their little gal by sending me to 'multi-racials' after i passed sub B.

They did a good damn job by sending you to that school and you should be proud of them for doing that. Now it is up to you to decide whether your mother tongue will be of benefit to you or not. Trust me in time you will get to know your mother tongue.


The president of the republic was once speaking at Lesedi fm and he had someone translating the questions in English. Was it really necessary to translate the questions in English or was it for practical purposes? I guess what I am trying to say is that it is not easy for a government official to address the SA public in his mother tongue because the message will not reach as many people as they would like.

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 05:13

"I guess what I am trying to say is that it is not easy for a government official to address the SA public in his mother tongue because the message will not reach as many people as they would like."

Good point there realist, it was also raised in the documentary. It's mch easy to address in his homelanguage *For instance, Xhosa for Thabo Mbeki* for the people that are also Xhosa speaking *especially when he addesses people from teh rural communities*, the communication level and understanding is much better that way.

carino
18 Jun 2008 05:16

And did anyone watch the Jam Sandwich?? I thought it was kinda cool... and it left me with a lot of opinions i'd like to share. Someone please write an article....

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 06:20

BEEbabes im not sure who produced the doccie but they did a good job, the end credits went by very quickly. but i guess theres no point of sticking to a language if it does not help you to communicate with those around you.Cause i believe thats one of the primary functions of language to begin with.
So some find english a more pratical way to communicate whilst others dont. its all about preferance, values and convinience at the end of the day,or am i wrong?

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 06:28

"And did anyone watch the Jam Sandwich?? I thought it was kinda cool... and it left me with a lot of opinions i'd like to share. Someone please write an article...."
Perhaps u shoud write the article Carino, seems like an interesting concept to me!!!!

"So some find english a more pratical way to communicate whilst others dont. its all about preferance, values and convinience at the end of the day,or am i wrong"
U as sooooo right tha - bang!!!

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 06:30

I meant - U are sooooo right tha - bang!!!

McDee
18 Jun 2008 06:45

people shud stop speaking english with their small kids.
it's soooo fake!!!!

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 06:48

lol @ nonny ur quite a nitpicker arent u

carino
18 Jun 2008 06:54

Perhaps u should write the article Carino, seems like an interesting concept to me!!!! 

Wish i could write the article..... It was a brilliant concept... and i really digged the way they just related, maan... on the whole front, njee.. 

oodarkie will always be oodarkie...nomakanjani and the mlungus can never understand them hey...

You see... the white people were panicking thinking time is being wasted... udarkie was having fun while working at  the same time... and at the end of the day, the work was done... Everybody was happy... White people just need to loosen up, thats all. 

I love South Africa!

tha - bang
18 Jun 2008 06:56

true mcdee i think parents do alot of damage by only speaking english to their kids.but i guess some are just trying to do what they think is best but i think theres something wrong with it.

Brown Shuga
18 Jun 2008 07:12

<<<people shud stop speaking english with their small kids>>>  I used to think like this until my son started school. He's in Grade 1 now and is kinda struggling . Had I known any  better, I would have listened to his "pre-school" teachers who always insisted I speak English naye.  
 

McDee
18 Jun 2008 07:21

BS There's a difference between teachin kids english and speaking english to them. I read bedtime stories in english with my son.He's 3. I teach him english.I do not speak english with him constantly. I do agree they have to learn it before they get/are in pre-school so that they can relate, but there's no need for me to be speaking english with them while doing the groceries. It's fake nje PERIOD.

Cnglemother
18 Jun 2008 07:54

Dont worry BS he's gonna catch up, labantu bacatchupa easy. But i still think its cool that you gave him his home language before eya ebalungwini ngada esikolweni.  Andifuni kwamtwana ongakwazi ukujayiva or speak his home language. I get so irritated when i go to these surbarbians birthday parties and small kids cant even phul'iqolo or tobetsa or something like that, its so cute when a child dances. 

I feel u MCDee ifakelana amahloni laway joe, a little boy going "mommy i want this","daddy i dont want this" in that whining irritating hing-hong accent.
Different strokes for different folks i guess.

Nonny
18 Jun 2008 08:13

"but there's no need for me to be speaking english with them while doing the groceries. It's fake nje PERIOD.
I agree McDee, it's so wrong, and then shem the poor kids adopt these habits of saying: "you know like"........"I was kinda like".........."I'm like"......."you know what I mean".................."like DURRRRR".........and they say these phrases, every two seconds and never mind the accent of someone who a severe flu!!!!

Vesa
18 Jun 2008 08:30

people shud stop speaking english with their small kids.....Recommedation from creche/ primary school teachers is to speak English with them most of the time

Vesa
18 Jun 2008 08:32

Oops...I meant recommendation

realist
18 Jun 2008 08:32

people shud stop speaking english with their small kids.
Then why do you take them to predominantly English speaking school?
Children adapt too quickly, whether you like it or not, eventually they will speak English while you are doing shopping. Whether fake or not you cannot stop them speaking that way. If it makes you uncomfortable, do not go with them when you do groceries.

tha - bang
19 Jun 2008 02:11

my pre schoola and primary teacher said the same thing and my mother and myself were like hell no.he did not suffer, he speaks to his friends in english and the kids in the area.but when at home and with the extended family he just speaks setswana.its not an impossibility.but its different strokes for different folks it might have worked for us,it may not work for u.

Sobza
19 Jun 2008 02:22

I am Xhosa and I can read, speak, write and understand Sesotho and Setswana. I work in a community library where we different people come in to the library daily speaking different languages. 

I admit most of the time I communicate in English, even the church I go to we use English most of the time. I use an English Bible and I find it hard reading my Xhosa Bible (okanye ndingathi nje ndiyayonqena). Don't get me wrong, I can read isiXhosa very well kukuthi nje sendiziqhelise isiNgesi.

I luv isiXhosa and kumnandi kakhulu ke xa usithetha phakathi kwabantu abangasivayo.

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 02:28

If it makes you uncomfortable, do not go with them when you do groceries. LOL!  my friend's toddler is like that and she told me to shut up coz i am forever complaining about the child's use of the english language and she says its something that you have little control over as she only spends few hours with this child and its english waya-waya during the day. The child ends up not understanding what the mother is saying in isiXhosa and she resorts to speaking english with him to have something descent coming out of the child. She told me i will only understand it once I am in a similar situation (child goes to model c chreche)

Renegade
19 Jun 2008 02:28

@Awelani, those months really will help,thank you, as for Murathu, I was always confused by the difference between murathu, mkomana, and khaladzi, i just always assumed there'd only be two, but dont worry, I understand all that now

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 02:34

Sobza i am the opposite i just cannot understand the english bible at all, the terms just get too complicated for me. I have to consult a dictionary everytime i open a english bible. 

The only problem i have is reading recipes in Xhosa/Zulu. Food ingredients and measurements are so complicated in Xhosa/Zulu.

belz
19 Jun 2008 02:46

and kumnandi kakhulu ke xa usithetha phakathi kwabantu abangasivayo.> LOL Sobza.

tha - bang
19 Jun 2008 02:49

Food ingredients and measurements are so complicated in Xhosa/Zulu.
lol i did not know that they make them in vernac.

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 03:01

Thabzozo, remember i grew up on Bona magazine dude so my cooking lessons were made of things like:

phasli = parsely
sinamoni = cinnamon.
imbuphu zesonka = bread crumbs and i struggled to figure out this one.

tha - bang
19 Jun 2008 03:24

phasli = parsely
sinamoni = cinnamon.
imbuphu zesonka = bread crumbs and i struggled to figure out this one.
lol i thought as much eish,im in stitches cnlmom.uve just made my morning

Cande
19 Jun 2008 03:32

he he he Cinglemom you crack me up...
I don't have a problem with English speaking kids, nut i think they shold have a solid foundation of their mother tongue first..!

McDee
19 Jun 2008 03:47

Like I said there's nothing wrong with English, kids need to learn it at an early age so that when they get to creche they can relate.Kids need to know that English is an alternative language to speak to someone if you dont know how to speak their mother tongue.Kids need to know where they come from, they need us parents to make sure that they always remain grounded and that they know their roots and that if their roots are stronger than the branches that keep coming up ,they get fresh and ripe fruits throughout the stages of their lives.

That's my philosophy, different strokes for different people. I was raised like that and am very very proud of being able to speadk both my Zulu and English fluently.

I just need to learn to speak the other languages fluently as well. hi hi hi 

Honeypot
19 Jun 2008 03:49

@ McDee, I have to agree with you on that one! I went to the doctor in March and I sat next  to this lady with her very cute son who only speaks english, not that there is anything wrong with that, the mother was struggling terribly to speak to her son Yet she and the dad conversate in Sotho. I was like WTF why do you have to bite your tongue with the Queens Language when you should be speaking like Moshoeshoe to your kid.

Toxic
19 Jun 2008 03:56

phasli = parsely
sinamoni = cinnamon.
imbuphu zesonka = bread crumbs and i struggled to figure out this one.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

tha - bang
19 Jun 2008 04:02

was like WTF why do you have to bite your tongue with the Queens Language when you should be speaking like Moshoeshoe to your kid. very true honeypot.Im with Mcdee on this whole issue,theres nothing wrong with speaking english fluently.I believe its even sweeter if you can speak your own mother tongue too.t should not suffer at the alter of the queens tongue

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 04:03

the mother was struggling terribly to speak to her son - LOL! it must have been a terribly sight HP. Mother going like "stop it man Tebogo stop it, i buy you chips after the doctor neh?" odarkie mara love things fo sho.

Toxic
19 Jun 2008 04:06

LMAO Cngle!!!!!! I buy you chips after the doctor neh....kwa kwa kwa!!!

Brown Shuga
19 Jun 2008 05:05

Yeah, different strokes for different folks.... 
For the first 6 years of his life, I've been speaking Xhosa to him. Now we speak English and shame, his English is so broken....he's the one who says "I buy you chips after the doctor"...

My helper speaks Sotho to him, his dad's family speaks Zulu and my family is Xhosa so I don't think there's anything wrong with me helping him master English, the language he is taught in at school. 

Besides, wasn't Mathata being mocked for her english just yesterday? I don't want that to happen to my child. 
I'd rather deal with mathata ao now and not  when he's 20 coz the same people who are going "speak vernac" are the same ones who'll be mocking him when he says "I don't hobby".

Cande
19 Jun 2008 05:12

iyhoo Cnglemom...ROFL

McDee
19 Jun 2008 05:15

BS  Your case is different your son already can speak Xhosa fluently plus he also knows Zuu and Sotho, you are now teaching him English, You've already given him his roots now he's getting the branches. He'll be fine. But you have to tell him that the only reason why you speak English to him is for him to learn to speak it. As soon as he has grasped the knowledge, which will be very soon. You have to go back to Zulu or Xhosa.

realist
19 Jun 2008 05:21

I agree, different strokes for different folks. Remember if you are doing this in the best interest of the child congrats. In 5 to 10 years time, affirmative action will no longer exist and English will be the order of the day. You know why? Because all the model C kids will be running the show and if you cannot step up to their standard you will be left out in the cold.

maud
19 Jun 2008 05:23

hi guys

i have to add on this, my son speaks english, i always try to Speak Zulu with him,but he will answer in english .

i am glad know at his school they are introdusing african languages,i found it funny at the age of nine he cant even say Sawubona without an accent.

all i wanted was for him to get a better education not loose his mothers tongue and calture.

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 05:23

BS i think you are overreacting by thinking he will buy chips after the doctor later in life, the boy is in grade 1 for goodness sake, soon he'll be rolling. I only buy chips after the doctor when it comes to Sotho coz i was only exposed to other african languages at 16 in Jozi.

Brown Shuga
19 Jun 2008 05:24

Okay McDee, ng'yakthola ke manje.

belz
19 Jun 2008 05:30

LOL Cinglemummy. Suhga :LOL shem man that poor child, but give him a year, uzobaright, i promise, abantwana they catch on very quickly, they are not thick like us.

Cande
19 Jun 2008 05:31

iyhoo BS he is learning all these languages at once?
I sooo wish i had an opportunity like his, but ke am slowly but surely leaning other languages..
I can't seem to get my head around Venda ans Shangaan though

Strolicious
19 Jun 2008 05:36

abantwana they catch on very quickly, they are not thick like us.true dat i've been practising my sotho but kuyabheda.

Honeypot
19 Jun 2008 05:43

@ Cnglemother ngathi bowulapho, I don't have a problem with kids speaking english, but one thing we must know kids are very clever and they catch on fast. My cousin attended a Pre-Sshool were the medium of instruction was Afrikaans after 6 months she was almost fluent in the language, yet she was 5. But at home they spoke to her in SeTswana because there was nobody she could praat with, so she was fluent in both languages. I personally don't like when black folks speak Vernac like some foreign language e.g Ndalamo on Muvhango...

McDee
19 Jun 2008 05:44

realist  I went to a module C school, I speak both my mother tongue and English fluently. There is nothing wrong with speaking english girl, but there's no need for me to speak English to umzulu when zulu is mother tongue and there's no need for me to be speaking english to my 3 year old who doesn't even know how to greet in his mother tongue. 

All I am saying is parents shud make sure that their kids know their mother tongue first before they get to be exposed to other languages.

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 05:48

Candzozo i have seen you gooing some nguni comments here and there and you are not bad at all. I wont even attempt shangaan & venda as i cant even try sotho. 

The problem is sotho spellings have the oa & and o's that are floating espacini nje so even if i try to write something in sotho those oa just become too overwhelming for me.

tha - bang
19 Jun 2008 05:51

maud man, ive noticed if the hosehold converses in english the kid picks it up easily but keep on trying.i know guys who speak to the ir fathers or parents in vernac and english to everyone else

carino
19 Jun 2008 05:58

The problem is sotho spellings have the oa & and o's that are floating espacini nje so even if i try to write something in sotho those oa just become too overwhelming for me.  

LMAOTIPAL.!!!!!!...yho.. wandibulala kanje ndisafika leCngle..... yhu!

Toxic
19 Jun 2008 06:02

hayi guys man. my parents NEVER EVER spoke a word of English to me when i was a child and i eventually learnt it! Tell your kids to read all material in English and listen to English stations -especially talk radio.

Kids should be allowed to be kids- not saddled with the responsibilty of learning perfect english or pronounciations or whatever-geez!

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 06:05

Honestly speaking I use to envy the guys that went to model c's back in my high school days. We would go to Wits for debates and did the kids from Sandringham High School & other white schools hack us ngo Joji, you'd be sitting there thinking in English (very diffikult) and bona they would just roll like english is their mother tongue. There was this girl who wore a blazer elke dag to look like she's from a Drobheni school coz our uniform was not typical loxion uniform, u know mos loxion schools dont really rock blazers. 

Mna i really wanted to go to Model C's guys fo sho just to speak like ngidle izambane elishisayo but the means were not there. And the model c girls got so much attention from boys when we went to the library, that used to torture me. Boys would just spot them from their thousand school bags, one for hockey one for squash one for tennis WTF, and thina we just rock one bag GAAD yencwadi.Thank GOD my son will be going Sacred Heart or KEPS.  

faraimagic
19 Jun 2008 06:05

Carino im so proud of you!...i cant read zulu,sotho,xhosa and afrikaans but i can understand all...SiSI Carino you put me to shame....kuf kuf kuf kuf!

carino
19 Jun 2008 06:07

...cough, cough... Thanks, Farai...cough...cough...

faraimagic
19 Jun 2008 06:08

i used to run away from people who wanted to speak in english to me wen i was growing up.........yho i became a sprinter coz of that...by the way what do you call that phobia ?......Yrrr.........lets see how much you know?

Toxic
19 Jun 2008 06:11

Boys would just spot them from their thousand school bags, one for hockey one for squash one for tennis WTF, and thina we just rock one bag GAAD yencwadi.Thank GOD my son will be going Sacred Heart or KEPS. 

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strolicious
19 Jun 2008 06:12

Thank GOD my son will be going Sacred Heart or KEPS...i feel u Cnglmom.mina i've started saving for my son's education,i pray to Gaad angasabi isikole.

belz
19 Jun 2008 06:13

LOL cnglemommy, i also didn't get all those bags uyazi, mina i would be having one bag with probably one book ne lunchtin nje kuphela.

Strolicious
19 Jun 2008 06:23

Belz one book ayi wena bewemshona ...LOL

Toxic
19 Jun 2008 06:27

Belz, one book???????? O maaka!

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 06:33

And belz they have itransport yabo bodwa, and wena you walk to school or catch itaxi with people going to work. Stroh sho ntombazana, you dont wanna put uvuvu thru want we went thru, it was hectic. We became adults before our time through our experiences.

Thabzozo sorry for turning this into a "non healing scars inflicted by bantu-education" blog. Interesting BTW.

Nonny
19 Jun 2008 06:40

"Boys would just spot them from their thousand school bags, one for hockey one for squash one for tennis WTF, and thina we just rock one bag GAAD yencwadi."
LMAO @ Cnglemom...........kwa kwa kwa..........at least now ur son has the opportunity to carry those thousand bags that u never had.

tha - bang
19 Jun 2008 06:42

All I am saying is parents shud make sure that their kids know their mother tongue first before they get to be exposed to other languages. amen McDee.one free micky D burger on me for that statement
Kids should be allowed to be kids- not saddled with the responsibilty of learning perfect english or pronounciations or whatever-geez!very true
Thank GOD my son will be going Sacred Heart or KEPS. aga shame cinglemum the trauma of childhood made u who u are now lol

realist
19 Jun 2008 06:50

 @ McDee
Personnaly I have no problem with you trying to instil in your child that he must know his mother tongue. 

There is nothing wrong with speaking english girl, but there's no need for me to speak English to umzulu when zulu is mother tongue and there's no need for me to be speaking english to my 3 year old who doesn't even know how to greet in his mother tongue.

But you have a problem when somebody's child speaks English to someone who does not speak English. Why is that?

All I am saying is parents shud make sure that their kids know their mother tongue first before they get to be exposed to other languages. 

Are you not imposing your beliefs to other parents? Personally, whether they speak English or any other language, I am comfortable as long as we understand each other when conversing.

No offence intended. All I am saying is that we should not impose what is comfortable within our beliefs and think that everyone should follow suit.

Cande
19 Jun 2008 07:05

realist uyasithanda isilungu neh?

Cnglemother
19 Jun 2008 07:16

LOL@ Cande hi-hi-hi! off to lunch peeps.

realist
19 Jun 2008 07:23

@ Cande
Not at all, I am just being honest.

Hlehle
19 Jun 2008 07:25

To me i'm not going to teach my kids how to speak English. What will the teachers do if i do that. And they'll speak English at school not in my house as long as i check their grama books and correct where its wrong. Not that i'll have a job of teaching them how to speak English noooo.Even if they ask me the meaning of the words i'll tell them the meanings.

Shadow
19 Jun 2008 07:40

What irritates are those people back in the villages, when you go visit they start talking to you in English and mind u their engish is so embarassing. Just because i stay in the city does not mean i cant speak my mother tongue. Worse...even if you converse with them in the local language, they still continue to torture you with their terrible english....*phew*.

tha - bang
19 Jun 2008 08:08

Worse...even if you converse with them in the local language, they still continue to torture you with their terrible english....*phew*. ive been tere done that got the t shirt twice.i just thinks its due to inferiority complex.which some people have.
but realist ur rightit takesall sorts to mae the world go round

Toxic
19 Jun 2008 08:26

WHAT does MIND YOU mean mara he? I've seen this used so many times on TVSA and i'm struggling to use it cause i'm not what it means...

zolx
19 Jun 2008 08:37

MIND YOU? - Qonda/ understand/a

BlaXon
25 Jun 2009 17:04

Its interesting how all you hypocrites responded in 'ENGLISH'. With all due respect to you tribesmen, I would like to state that our African tribes were a consequence of division/dispersion among Africans. There Tribes we are so proud of today are only a very recent part of our history. Take some time out to have a clearer look at our history. Ask youself these questions:

1. Why do we have similarities in certain words/meanings in the various tribal languages throughout Africa?

2. Whats really wrong with African youth being able to communicate across Africa using English?

3. How can we achieve African Unity when each tribe sticks to their own tribal language and therefore cant communicate with the other tribes?

4. Why is alcohol the major ingredient in any tribal traditional festivity? Is this madness really our culture? Dare to ask yourself!!!

Lets not confuse our age-old (sober) culture with these recent tribal (alcoholic) traditions!!!!

The history in your school textbook only represents the most recent madness, before this madness, we were united and spoke in one language, one culture, one love. Your history teacher aint got nothing on me!!!

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