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The Observer: Language on TV

Written by TheObserver from the blog TheTVObserver on 19 Nov 2008
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Whilst observing as usual, I had a question.

“What is the least respected language on TV?"

In America, Spanish is the countries widely taught language and is considered a second language. So, I got to work, observing everything I could possible observe….

The answer….well it inspired this blog. Enjoy, debate, argue, enlighten, discuss and reflect. Remember to play nice...

Here goes…

We have 11 official languages but it seems television caters for predominantly Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans and English than any other language group. I am not saying we do not have representation of other languages but when we compare those to the “top four” languages, is it fare that such representation is pretentious and somewhat done to full fill some quota rather than an actual commitment to make sure that such languages are represented?

This is not an attack on the Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans or English speaking people, but an observation on language discrimination currently prevalent on South African television and its productions. If you notice, some of these Zulu or Xhosa actors will take on Sotho or Tswana roles. We know casting is based on talent not language origin but why wouldn’t anyone take special notice of that fact, when the majority of actors on our screens are of Zulu and Xhosa origin as a result of their successful network of prosperity engraved in their origins which excludes the rest.

Notice the people who are selected as winners or contestants on game shows, reality shows etc. The runners ups and winners will normally be Zulu, or Xhosa on free to air and almost exclusively Afrikaans on pay-tv. Then you are left wondering…. why is this happening? Yet we forget that Zulu and Xhosa people practically rule SABC1 and the SABC as a whole, together with their newly adopted counter parts the Swati and Ndebele. Just look at the management surnames, origins and board members. It’s quite interesting.

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Almost every drama that is being introduced has a 60% Zulu/Xhosa cast with same level language incorporation in its dialogue. I have to acknowledge that Pedi, Sotho and Tswana are making inroads but I always wonder “to where” since the broadcasters prefer Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans and English.

Let’s take Muvhango as an example…. Thandaza was never a leading cast member. In fact any other race was never originally portrayed as leads. The show revolved around the Sotho and Venda family feud with a strong focus on Venda’s, but because the creator is Zulu we had to have a permanent Zulu lead and other guest roles all championing the Zulu kingdom. To a point where the show became more about the Zulus than the Vendas… now they are trying to turn it around but never without a strong dose of Zuluness.

Moletsane at Isidingo is supposed to be Tswana or Sotho speaking but due the actor's strong zulu identity they have accomodated his language by changing the characters history. We end up with the late Letti Matabane speaking zulu in a show we thought was a breather from the Zulu influence.

It was quite interesting and an eye opening experience for me to find out from the discussions I had that “just because people are black it does not mean they are all the same”. Within the blackness there are great divides and in observing these channels and their presentation including the people they hire. I realized it to be true. Most white people think all black people speak Zulu… with those ”SAWUBONA” type greetings. Are you kidding me!

Every national campaign by government is always tagged with a Zulu or Xhosa pay-off line. I was shocked to find out that the 2010 world cup is tagged with a Sotho or Tswana pay-off line.

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The Shakespeare in Mzanzi series offered perhaps the best display of talent beyond the big four, when the show was anchored by a cast of Pedi speaking actors, who delivered beyond anyone’s imagination. It was an excellent potrayal of the queen of rain story with a twist….LOVED IT! But the Transkei and Natal crew was not HAVING IT! Squash the suckers down! If you ask most Zulu or Xhosa people about North West, Limpopo and Free State they will tell you nothing happens in those places… Yeah Right!

When it comes to MNET and DSTV, any person who would expect them to run anything beyond English and Afrikaans would be very much out of their minds. We know very well that black languages are not cared for on Mnet and Dstv… period. There is no way in hell it will ever happen! Why? You are not their target market… just because you pay to watch Mnet and Dstv. It does not give you the right to demand anything. Shut up and pay!  Besides…. when black people pay for Dstv they mainly want the luxury of an alternative since they will continue to watch the SABC channels and ETV on Dstv.

Did you know that Kyknet is probably the first 100% original local channel dedicated to a single language group in South Africa?  It even had its own Idols in Afrikaans.

Afrikaans is a language of approximately 60% white and 90% mixed race "coloured" people.

On SABC you get a lot of Xhosa and Zulu people getting any and all, available opportunities from business to entertainment and being on television. Let me give you an example… Gospel Time is produced by a Zulu owned production company, the presenter is from Mpumalanga (part of the Nguni movement), almost 90% of talent that appears on the show is Zulu and the artists with the most recurring appearances are 100% Zulu despite their popularity. If you don't believe, keep a diary of this season.

It amazes me that SABC keeps saying SABC1 is for the Nguni but black people watch the channel because it has the best household penetration. Some cities can’t even pick up SABC3 and ETV whilst SABC2 is dodgy at times. So by reception, SABC1 is the only national channel with the most household penetration from accessibility. That would then mean even nonNguni nations are affected by the language issue.

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In the days of segregation, channels like TV1 and TV2 - I think, used to run programs by the likes of Scott films which premiered high quality and well crafted programs which covered every black language in equal representation. Black people enjoyed watching shows featuring the different races. Today… if you are Sotho you need to speak Zulu or Xhosa to get in the door. Alternatively dye your self white and speak English or Afrikaans maybe SABC2, KykNet, MK and Mnet may give you shot.

As for ETV, one would think its neutral territory, but the Zulu and Xhosa influence is starting to take hold. Although currently it seems better than SABC, I have a strong suspicion that it will get worse in the coming years. I particularly like Sello Maake’s character on Scandal because he can speak almost any language with such passion and accuracy, that makes him what I call a poster-boy for a true South African actor. The same could be said about the newly adopted craze of sangomas on our screens. A week does not go by without sangoma this and sangoma that. Most of those sangomas are of Zulu or Xhosa origin and language group. This also includes Zulu and Xhosa cultures and customs which are now being promoted heavily on almost every show.

May the Power of God In Holy Heaven descend upon the land in which we live to purify our hearts and minds for greater clarity and celestial intelligence.

The sad thing is that people who are in the industry will form clusters of their own culture and language groups just to survive. They will bend together and exchange favors just to get ahead. I remember Isidingo used to be the most clustered of soaps, blacks one side and whites one side. Talk about the need for change! I hope they have come around!

If you think I am inaccurate in any way… invest your energy in a single day watching only SABC1-2-3 and ETV and assess how many Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans individuals are on air; the amount of screen time given to them; production companies owned directly or in part by them; the programs they appear in; the amount of dialogue that uses their language; and music from artists of that origin featured on television. Compare that with other languages… you will be surprised! It’s very subtle but effective… it’s like there is a cult which is trying to render the other languages extinct.

Even characters such Karabo and Kenneth Mashaba are found speaking Zulu whilst the Zulu characters will never utter a line of Sotho, Tswana or Pedi. Take the character “Ntombi”, the actor playing the role can speak perfect Tswana or Sotho and used to act in one Tswana/Sotho drama, but have you ever heard her talk to Karabo in Tswana? I find it very funny when friends debate how Zulu and Xhosa speaking people always expected everyone to know their language whilst they never even attempt to speak other peoples languages. Unless they want to get some! Delusions of grandeur anyone!

Like I said in the beginning, “this is not an attack on Zulu, Xhosa or Afrikaans people” but an observation of a troubling discriminatory effect of language on the television broadcast landscape!

As a budding linguist (on my off days), I find the Zulu language very expressive like Afrikaans. They have certain words which capture emotion and intent better than any other. It's like french....  I also think that SHAKA, was the greatest production ever to be based on a part of South African history. It’s a pity we don’t have anything about King Moshoeshoe and many other tribes with amazing tales currently untold that hold amazing spectrum's of hero’s from our very own land.

When are we going to see dramas starring the Tsonga, Tswana, Pedi and Sotho only cast and storylines? When are we to see additional soap operas about the Tsonga, Pedi and Sotho or Tswana? I guess NEVER!

Which language do you think is less respected on television?

What can be done to fix it? If possible, If not.... why?

By The Observer

Related Link
The Observer: Reponds to Language on TV

Disclaimer
The information provided here is not journalistic but simply observations and the opinions expressed by The Observer, and guests are strictly their own. The Observer claims no credit for some of the images featured on this blog. All visual content is copyright to it’s respectful owners. If you own rights to any of the images, and do not wish them to appear on this blog, please mailtheobserver (at) yahoo.com and they will be promptly removed.



87 Comments

Floh
19 Nov 2008 05:59

Very long....................


IQ? abantu ngobani? If you know the answer, you've been answered why Zulu's are dominating.

heavenly
19 Nov 2008 06:21

I was shocked to find out that the 2010 world cup is tagged with a Sotho or Tswana pay-off line...... proof right there that the Nguni Nation is not out for war....LOL


I also think that SHAKA, was the greatest production ever to be based on a part of South African history. It’s a pity we don’t have anything about King Moshoeshoe and many other tribes with amazing tales currently untold that hold amazing spectrum's of hero’s from our very own land. ...... maybe its so many politicians did amazing job for our freedom and our country but will never get the recognition that Tata Madiba got from all over the world because with him it was extra ordinary. just a thought angazi.



lepogo
19 Nov 2008 07:26

well crafted-I must admit....

I think the dominance is subtle and almost undetected,and I think theres a movement,deliberate or not,to undermine languages in this country.And the most effective weapon of such is obviously the broadcasting corporation-no wonder theres a fight to control the broadcaster by the political formations.

And you raised one of the most interesting statements-about the coastal people thinking that the North West,Northern Cape etc arnt exactly existing-since tertiary days Ive never met more ignorant people than these ones,who think Mzantsi extend up to the Northern surbubs of Jozi,and that beyond there exists nothingness and have this dogged unwillingness to think anyone can be from those parts of the world....

And I have always made it a point to tell all whities to not use the pidgin Zulu on my tswana ass,as I feel that they still think all darkies must be Zulu or Xhosa,violent or sneaky....

Ke lame leo,and Im sticking by my story

TheLady
19 Nov 2008 07:47

Oh that dude-yummy..

let me go back and finish reading

Cande
19 Nov 2008 07:52

I find it very funny when friends debate how Zulu and Xhosa speaking people always expected everyone to know their language whilst they never even attempt to speak other peoples languages

Most of the cases its true, all of my friends including my bf speak to me in Xhosa here in PTA, none of them is making a point to learn Tswana and we communicate in Xhosa all the time to an extent that i speak it to my mother as well..

Nonny
19 Nov 2008 08:13

WOW what an interesting and informative article. As a Zulu person, I must admit I also feel that Zulu is being too dominant at SABC1. This is even clearly depicted in the most watched local soapie Generubbish, it honestly saddens me to see Karabo, DinnyKenny & even Grace's mom struggling to fit Zulu in2 their vocab, yet abo Ntombi, Subusiso, Khethiwe, Dumisani & our dear old Kaphela never make an effort to say something in Sesotho

I mean SA has the greatest weapon at it's disposal, yet it's not being used. I mean we have 11 beautiful official languages but only three are always in the lead. And the three main characters, oopsie I mean main languages is isiZulu, isiXhosa & Isingisi (English). 

But guys, mind u this is not just only happening in TV, even in general if u go to Joburg u find a gropu of Tswana, Sesotho & Sepedi speaking people, and guess what they would rather bhidilisha (try to speak) isiZulu when they could easily communicate in the own language. So perhaps that's why the media also sees Zulu & Xhosa being the "preferred" meduim to convey messages and broadcast programmes in.

belz
19 Nov 2008 08:14

Even characters such Karabo and Kenneth Mashaba are found speaking Zulu whilst the Zulu characters will never utter a line of Sotho, Tswana or Pedi.>> True, im reminded of Tau, the way he used to speak Zulu, lol!!!


to an extent that i speak it to my mother as well..> and to me Cande, but u know i can speak Tswana, not that well but i try, stick to your language, if they speak Xhosa, respond in Tswana.

as I feel that they still think all darkies must be Zulu or Xhosa. >>True Lepogo, and they think if they can say Sawubona they can speak Zulu.

People just dont want to make an effort!!!!!!!

Nonny
19 Nov 2008 08:22

as I feel that they still think all darkies must be Zulu or Xhosa. >>True Lepogo, and they think if they can say Sawubona they can speak Zulu.
So true, when IU was younger I used to love the attention that was given to amaZulu, but with maturity I realised that it is wrong. But ke nama Tsonga, Seswati, Ndebele & Venda people must also embrace their language more. Like mina, if I am speaking to someone on the phone for the first time, I ask u if u understand isiZulu coz there is no way in hell that I am gonna speak English with someone we could easily understand each other in Seswati, Zulu or Xhosa, ungamane uhambe uyofa, but I love our indegineous languages and I'm proud of that.

Nonny
19 Nov 2008 08:23

Sorry guys, I meant indigenous, I guess I love uMageba so much my Engish has deteriorated........LOL

GML
19 Nov 2008 08:30

It depends on what an individual likes........ I speak Zulu and my BF speaks Sotho. WE use both languages and his family doesnt like it when I speak to them in Zulu.

Are we going to live our lives arguing about politics, gender equality and now languages??????? We have a lot on our plate as it is and debating about which languages are more dominant than others seems like such a waste.

I want to learn as many languages as possible and I speak at least 5. It depends how much you want to be able to communicate with other people

extinct
19 Nov 2008 08:31

Interestin i'm pedi and it pains my heart to see pedi's being ashamed of their own language and talkin tswana or zulu to 'fit in' i mean wth is going on who said other languages are better than others just cause most ppl speak them doesn't mean their better that yours i'm a true pedi and i communicate ka pedi one way u speak ur language i'l speak mine and as for english why should we even as blak ppl communicate ka yona SEPEDI KE A SERATO KUDU EBILE KE SONA KE GOTSENG KA SONA EBILE A SENSWABISHE

Nonny
19 Nov 2008 08:34

I want to learn as many languages as possible and I speak at least 5. It depends how much you want to be able to communicate with other people
I'll tell you what makes it even harder as a Zulu person to learn oether languages, eveytime I wanna learn another language, those are the same people that talk isiZulu waya waya to me, then I just let it go and I go with flow.

Nonny
19 Nov 2008 08:35

SEPEDI KE A SERATO KUDU EBILE KE SONA KE GOTSENG KA SONA EBILE A SENSWABISHE
That's the spirit Extinct, don't allow ur language to be extinct.....LOL

Cande
19 Nov 2008 08:41

just like the media, the focus is always on amaZulu, not as much reseach & surveys are done abt the other ethnic groups, so ke ungalinge usiqele kanjalo.

No Nonny Observer didnt mean it like that, I think Observer meant that KZN which is a province of mostly Zulu's is the worst affected province(which is true according to a research done) in the country with HIV/AIDS therefore the majority that SABC caters for might turn into a minority(these are not my words but the writer's) NOT that research & surveys are mostly done in the province..

Are we going to live our lives arguing about politics, gender equality and now languages???????
I dont think Observer wanted an argument to arise, the writer was just sharing his observations which happened to be true according to some of us...You could disagree to the writer with facts

monchooza
19 Nov 2008 08:42

<<<<But guys, mind u this is not just only happening in TV, even in general if u go to Joburg u find a gropu of Tswana, Sesotho & Sepedi speaking people, and guess what they would rather bhidilisha (try to speak) isiZulu when they could easily communicate in the own language. So perhaps that's why the media also sees Zulu & Xhosa being the "preferred" meduim to convey messages and broadcast programmes in.>>>>

True that Nonny...and the sad part is that me as an Isizulu speaking person, i would like to learn the other african languages.....kodwa the sothos, pedis, and vendas etc never speak their languages with us so that we learn them

Cande
19 Nov 2008 08:43

Andi01, i would "kill" to hear your opinion on the topic at hand NOT only anout KZN(Zulu's) & AIDS

andi01
19 Nov 2008 08:50

OK enough on the Aids issue, i will go outside and cry ma heart out, be back in 10 minutes, to respond on the entire article

Cande
19 Nov 2008 08:51

ja the statement didnt sit well with me as well and i am not Zulu neither am i from KZN, lets hope the author edits the article or comes back to defend the statement..

But what about the rest of the article, watz ur take??

Nonny
19 Nov 2008 08:53

OK enough on the Aids issue, i will go outside and cry ma heart out, be back in 10 minutes, to respond on the entire article
hehehehh mngani kant u are serious??? Don't take it so personal, it's just one of thsoe comments nje.

TheLady
19 Nov 2008 08:54

I foresee this blog turning into an arguement about Zulus not speaking other languages or even them being 'ravaged by HIV /AIDS' and dying. 

And anyway may be then you won't be complaining coz all of us will be dead and probably SABC will be predominantly Venda or whatever.

Whew-let me go get some air...am so pissed off.

Best-Achiever
19 Nov 2008 08:54

Great Observation...

An argument is always made about the large numbers of Zulu people in the country... Maybe that's y there are so many Zulu programmes on tv? To cater for the majority. 

i agree with this.... 

u go to Joburg u find a gropu of Tswana, Sesotho & Sepedi speaking people, and guess what they would rather bhidilisha (try to speak) isiZulu 

very true Nonny and they are making it so difficult for Zulu speaking people to learn their language because they make conversations either in Zulu or English

But nna im a Zulu and im learning other Languages, i can converse in Sotho(even though, i do that like a three year old), learning Tswana now(but my Tutor Cande hasnt started her classes with me) and venda(awelani can testify to that). i think it is more about individual and valuing other people's languages just like they value their... and the pride that those people have towards their own languages.

lepogo
19 Nov 2008 08:58

I speak Setswana all the time,am proud of it,but my pride must NEVER lead me to blog in Setswana and at the exclusion of other bloggers and I wont speak Setswana even if I realise that someone can barely hear what Im saying.

In short,pride must never be used to justify downright bias and exclusion-I think theres a language thats now coming up,peppered with all sorts of indegenous expressions and have English as its carrier.

But on any given day,I find my language been enriched by the dramatic overtones in Zulu,the arrogance in Xhosa,the humility in Sotho and Setswana and the poetic didactics of Tshivenda and ultimately the spiritedness of Xitsonga.....

Just that Im not at all too sure if Ndebele is regarded as a language,but if it is,I am impressed by its auducity to be a spoken,not a written language...

Ke lame leo

Cande
19 Nov 2008 09:06

but my Tutor Cande hasnt started her classes with me

Eish BA, PM me kaloku so that we get started...

awelani can testify to that
Can i also join the class?????

Best-Achiever
19 Nov 2008 09:10

have never been hurt this much since the apartheid days.
 Andi01....Classic my friend

And anyway may be then you won't be complaining coz all of us will be dead and probably SABC will be predominantly Venda or whatever.

The Lady.... I dont think the Observer wanted you guys to feel like this, im Zulu by the way and so proud of that.

About SABC and what-what dominating in Zulu and Xhosa...
Just like you said Observer, it is because the owners, the writters and the majority of viewers are Zulu or Xhosa.... so it make so much business sense that they market their product to the majority and they write things in the language that they know best. This should be a challenge to the upcomming nonNguni writters and owners to market their own languages, and give Nguni's the competition.

Nonny
19 Nov 2008 09:16

This should be a challenge to the upcomming nonNguni writters and owners to market their own languages, and give Nguni's the competition.
I agree BA.

And BTW, where the hell is Carino, she demands me to be here and yet she is nowhere to be seen, and this is her kinda blog coz damn that gal knows almost all the official languages fluently!!!!

Foxy gal
19 Nov 2008 09:23

This should be a challenge to the upcomming nonNguni writters and owners to market their own languages, and give Nguni's the competition. 

I totally agree

andi01
19 Nov 2008 09:24

Eish but its sad neh, I remember how I liked the following programmes but, cudnt verstaan them

Kedone
Bophelo ke semphekgo
Vicous circle

And people still say Sotho isn’t given a fair chance, do u guys ever watch SABC 2

maddie
19 Nov 2008 09:25

Thanks Observer,

I'm Sotho and currently working in KZN and the reason why I'm coping is because at school I learned Zulu from my friends.

my observations in KZN:

The people here think that the world revolves around them and the Zulu kingdom. the attitude they give you just because u r different, hurts very badly.

Let me give you an example:
Ubaba: excuse my spelling "igama lakho ubani"
Mina: "Nkele"
Ubaba: "Nkele, wa gabani"
Mina: " my sotho surname"
Ubaba: "ini leyo (loosley translated in English "what's that"

I'll be back for more





Best-Achiever
19 Nov 2008 09:36

The people here think that the world revolves around them and the Zulu kingdom. the attitude they give you just because u r different

@Maddie... it is not Just KZN.... this happen everywhere when you are the goat amongst the sheep's kraal and it is not because people think the world revolves around them, it is simple because you are the odd-one amongst them and they are bound to say or even look at you in a strange way when you speak or act differently from them. That was the same reaction i get whenever i tour to other places where Zulu is a foreign language to the community.

extinct
19 Nov 2008 09:42

Most ppl who speak tswana pedi or sotho always speak zulu ... U a right and that makes me angry not only with friends even with families also on tv my concern is can they make a pedi drama and actually use pedi actors cause most of the ppl on the shaikspear drama were not even pedi i speak pedi one day even when i answer the phone THOBELA KE EXTINCT YO A BOLELAGO NKA GO THUSHA

Cande
19 Nov 2008 09:42

true that BA

andi01
19 Nov 2008 09:49

I found that when it comes to language oppression, we are the culprits. An example the people that rent in the same yard as me are (Shona, Ndebele, Tsonga, Xhosa, Shangaan and Swati) and guess what language do they communicate in Zulu, and lately since my arrival Xhosa. The other people wud rather learn Xhosa (being difficult as it is), than teach us theirs. U find the guys conversing in Zulu or English and I ask them why, they say its to accommodate everyone LOL. Its all good and fair to think about other people as long as you don’t forget you self in the process. But ke the bottom line is gone are the days when people were held at gunpoint or tear-gassed to speak a certain language. It is an indivuduals choice to converse in the language they feel comfortable in as long as the people you talking to understand.

Yes it is sad that SABC and E-TV as the medium of info-teinment, inferiorates other official languages, but its up to us as language speakers to stand up, and make sure we are heard. Not all of us have the priviledge to be exposed to TV, but how about signing a petition to BCC for starters.

andi01
19 Nov 2008 09:54

And there is this day bambitsa David, he is shangaan and he is soo ashamed of himself I ask him, whats his mada tongue coz de way he speaks xhosa, i wanned 2 suprise him one day and greet him in his mada tongue. His answer is

Monday- Nna ke mopedi
Tuesdya- Grand grand ke motswana but I understand Sotho very well
Wednesday- Mme waka ke Mosotho maar mna ngingumswati
Thursday-No my father was Xhosa, but I never met him, so when i came to Cape Town i thot myslef my true language (this is my story that he heard me telling a frend). he lies so much it isnt even funny.

lepogo
19 Nov 2008 09:54

I thought this was NOT gonna go the route of justifying rude behaviour all because someone doesnt understand your language.....

And I had hoped Zulus were not gonna be defensive about the apparent inability to speak and learn other languages,however,I have realised that Vendas,whether in the Vaal,KZN,CPT,anywhere,they learn the language with no fuss.

But a Zulu in Rusternburg would always make a point of been stubborn with their language-Im not sure why,cos if thats pride,Vendas are not too proud.

Cande
19 Nov 2008 09:59

Vendas are not too proud.

I dont think its about not being proud,

maddie
19 Nov 2008 10:10

thought this was NOT gonna go the route of justifying rude behaviour all because someone doesnt understand your language.....

And I had hoped Zulus were not gonna be defensive about the apparent inability to speak and learn other languages,however,I have realised that Vendas,whether in the Vaal,KZN,CPT,anywhere,they learn the language with no fuss.

But a Zulu in Rusternburg would always make a point of been stubborn with their language-Im not sure why,cos if thats pride,Vendas are not too proud. 

AMEN AMEN AMEN

I'm in KZN which is predominantly Zulu and I speak Zulu all the time but rude behavior is just rude behavior.

my friend is Zulu and when she visited my home nobody treated her like that, my late mother even went to the extent of speaking with her in Zulu just so she can feel accomodated. something that might not happen here in KZN.

Let's not justify the unwillingness of others to learn other languages please

nanazile
19 Nov 2008 10:36


in KZN but no one in the same sentence would admit that the population is ravaged by HIV/AIDS which means in a couple of years it will probably be the lowest language group in the country.

Maybe you will die faster than the person in KZN of HIV/AIDS

PY
19 Nov 2008 11:16

Zulu is the largest ethnic group which makes it the most dominant language in SA, followed by Xhosa....this makes these 2 languages speakers to be arrogant towards the other language speakers.
As you said that in America, Spanish is regarded as the second language, I personally believe that in each & every country you will find the dominant language, I mean we have eleven, so there should be the most spoken than the others….
We have 9 provinces, of which 4 of them are occupied by these 2 languages, most Zulus are found in KZN & in Gauteng provinces, and most Xhosas are found in E-Cape & in W-Cape, …..then we are left with 5 provinces…*link*

I am a Xhosa, who lives in The Cape and would love to learn the other languages, but down here, you only found Xhosa, English & Afrikaans and very few Sothos(most of them speaks Xhosa), Zulus,XiTsonga, TshiVenda, Tswanas etc…My mother has a Sotho friend who married a Xhosa man, but her kids, don’t speak or understand the language and I’m the only one who is curious to learn.
My 2 classmatesTsonga  & Pedi from Tshwane, came here last year only speaking English & their languages….but now they also speaks Xhosa……*link*

Which language do you think is less respected on television?
I don’t want to say it is less respected, but it is less spoken…..it is isiNdebele (but on TV their cultures and customs are being promoted heavily)
I think that SABC and e-TV are trying so hard to broadcast our 11 official languages.
Your picture with 2 Robocop toys, the black and the green one and these statements “But the Transkei and Natal crew”, and KZN and HIV/Aids…..sound as if you are ANGRY & ATTACKING.

realist
19 Nov 2008 11:17

You have North West and Northern Cape and mostly speak Tswana. You have Natal which mostly speaks Zulu. Gauteng is a mixture of all the languages. Now how many populations do NW and NC have compared to Natal?

LM
19 Nov 2008 16:30

Shooo.....great obseravtions there The Observor. I concur with most of the things bloggas said...

Extinct:SEPEDI KE A SERATO KUDU EBILE KE SONA KE GOTSENG KA SONA EBILE A SENSWABISHE:  You've butchered this Sepedi  hle! Are you sure gore o gotse o se bolela? Neway, that's not important dear, atleast o a leka go se ngwala! I like your spirit though, but it shouldn't stop you from learning and mastering other languages.

Nna, I'm one of those Pedi who bidlisha (try to speak n even write, thanks Nonny) Zulu/Xhosa most of the time. This is done not because I'm ashamed of Pedi, but because I would like to be able to converse in diff indegineous languages. English for me is torture, afterall I learnt it in N.Sotho, LOL!

Sobza
19 Nov 2008 17:14

You should have observed  the language demographics in South Africa as well:

According to the 2001 census, isiZulu is the mother tongue of 23.8% of South Africa's population, followed by isiXhosa at 17.6%, Afrikaans at 13.3%,English 8.2%, Setswana 8.2%, Sesotho 7.9%, Xitsonga 4.4%, other 7.2%.

I am sure the public broadcaster takes this into consideration. Ngaphandleni kokuba ulwimi ngalunye lube nomabonakude walo.

For me, all these languages are not a problem and I understand and speak them very well even though I am still struggling with Venda and Shangaan.

mjj
19 Nov 2008 17:24

Hi Sobza

DJ Why why
19 Nov 2008 17:37

Grand grand la e TVSA sinetalente, uma uMangosuthu afuna umuntu wokubhala ispeech....lotza candidates la e khaya..........just kidding...

Mina ihayi shem i think SABC tries, i was just thinking gore for rona....we can read subtitles.....some of our gogos never went to school and they used to enjoy Hlala kwabafiley, Sgudi's Snice and Velaphi...What must those people be watching hee? Loko kungenza usizi.

Hi Mjay.......*crazee wave**

Lela
19 Nov 2008 18:24

Hayi suka, I have Sotho friends that always bhidiliza my Xhosa and mna I can't bhidiliza their Sotho though I understand it kakuhle. Ingxaki is that I always tell them to speak Sotho to me then I will respond in Xhosa but they never, they would rather speak Zulu. Even my boyfriend speaks Xhosa fluently and uyandidika cz mna I want a Zulu man not a Xhosa man. Hayi I don't know uba izothiwani lento!

TheObserver
19 Nov 2008 18:34

PLEASE NOTE CERTAIN RESPONSES HAVE BEEN DELEDTED INCLUDING A PARAGRAPH AND PICTURE ON THE BLOG. The Observer

For more information CLICK HERE

---

goldii's response less the other stuff...
The answer to your questions about languages might lie in the :South African history part.

In my opinion the history of South Africa is one big fat lie. I do not deny that Shaka existed, however I object to the opinion that South African Blacks emigrated from Central Africa because of the floods and moved South. If this was the case why did the other blacks (Zaire to name a few) stay behind and how did they stay alive all these years and were not wiped out by these so called floods and what happend to these floods did they suddenly stop because we left. Keep in mind who wrote this history and were they got their stories from, since we are led to belive that black people were nothing but primitive saveges who had not even invented a wheel.

Secondly if this so called South African history is to be belived why is it South African blacks do not have similar features as central african blacks , for example our hair texture (this just one example and according to scientitist it does not change with change of location, white people's hair has not changed since they moved to Africa, why are we different) The bushman story does not cut it .....are they trying to tell us that all the women slept with the bushman and it somehow affected the whole nation, and our hair changed to peppercorns........surely not.

Thirdly if this history is indeed true why is it that the countries that we passed thru on our way to the south do not have our great migration in their history books.....come on millions and millions of people and nobody bothers to ask were they are going to.

As for the Shaka Zulu story why did they only concentrate on one king why pay so much attention to one kingdom when there were more around. The rot started around this time and circle has not been broken, the Zulus were a majestic nation of proud , fit warriors... on the other hand they were saveges who killed at the drop of a hat for no reason at all.......Ok wathever you say Mr History but please make up your mind , they can't be both.

And so the history of SA was changed were one language /nation was more important than the rest and it is not going to change in the near that is fosho

pitch
20 Nov 2008 12:13

Its an unfortunate that i have to reply to this blog today. Yester i was too busy to read it and comment but as i got time today i think i should do this. Firstly i would like to thank @Lepogo for defending Venda's and @ Cande, Venda's are not ashamed of themselves. Venda people are not arrogant and dont think that they are better than other people. We are very proud of our language but we like to learn as much languages as possible without complain. While Zulu's, Xhosa's and maybe Tswana's saying Venda is difficult and Venda people had to learn their languages to communicate, we dont forget where we come from and as long as people still have the mentality that Venda is difficult will never learn it. I think people dont try to be nice today saying that you get irritated when people dont speak their own languages with you so you can learn cause it begins with you not wanting to learn it as already you have told yourself that its difficult.

As for me i prefer to speak English than any other African language with someone who wants to speak his language with me. Just because im black does not mean that i have to speak Zulu but because Zulu's are very stubborn when someone show up and try to talk to me in Zulu i end up replying in English just to irritate them though i could understand what he/she is saying because they never make an effort to speak other language except Zulu.

Most Zulu's look down to other peoples languages and they want us to embrace their language and its very bad. Because of the way most Zulu's behave, they gave even whites to think that every black person has to speak Zulu and they began to learn the language and show up starting to speak with you in Zulu as they got a problem thinking that when blacks are talking they are gossiping about them.

I think i should end in here. I dont want to offend anyone but the way African especially Zulu's and Xhosa's behave its out of line.

Ndi langa lenelo a thi tshaya phanda.

TheLady
20 Nov 2008 12:17

"Its an unfortunate that i have to reply to this blog today" unfortunate indeed

superwoman
20 Nov 2008 12:30

@ Pitch...u need to word your statements correctly,not all Zulus are stubborn and as a Zulu i feel that statement is ver offending.

nanazile
20 Nov 2008 12:36

we PITCH udinga umthandozo!!!

realist
20 Nov 2008 12:36

According to the 2001 census, isiZulu is the mother tongue of 23.8% of South Africa's population, followed by isiXhosa at 17.6%, Afrikaans at 13.3%,English 8.2%, Setswana 8.2%, Sesotho 7.9%, Xitsonga 4.4%, other 7.2%.

Moral of the story, there are more zulus in RSA than any other ethnicity.

Nonny
20 Nov 2008 12:46

Dear God, please help me not to comment any further on this article, for I might just end up adding more negative perceptions to amaZulu. Also allow me not to be offended in comments that generalise Zulu and I know very well don't include me.
Amen

maud
20 Nov 2008 12:56

hi guys

i am a xhosa by birth, i  did Zulu at School, i speak ,Pedi, Tswana ,Venda. Swazi  Sotho and Tsonga very fluently that makes people to wonder which nation i am,but is because in the location you are surrounded by all the nations and is up to you ,if you want to learn, you will learn.

at the moment i am taking Classes in  Shona language.and soon i will be perfect.

carino
20 Nov 2008 12:57

LOL @Nonnzzz...

TheLady
20 Nov 2008 13:01

maud-can I be your friend?

nanazile
20 Nov 2008 13:05

but its comments like awo Pitch enza ukuthi kuthiwa we are stubborn and rude coz ppl can not just leave thina ZINZULE alone

maddie
20 Nov 2008 13:22

Moral of the story, there are more zulus in RSA than any other ethnicity.

phela bayazala

<<<<<,,,ngizo thathi icover

pitch
20 Nov 2008 13:28

@ Superwoman and Nanazile: Sorry i generalise that Zulu's are stuborn, i know its not all of them but if you check Cande response was that Venda's are not proud of who they are. She generalise but the truth is not all of them are ashed of who they are. Not all Zulu's are stubborn i know that as i do have good friends who are Zulu's but dont force me to speak their language and i dont force them to speak mine i just speak it sometimes when i feels like but the problem is the majority of Zulu's who behave in that way.

Firstly i will highlight this: for all the years i was in PTA i dont remember meeting a Zulu person who started to greet or talk to me in another language. They all begin to talk to me in their language, what does that tell you. That most Zulu's think that all darkies should know Zulu, right? but its unfair to other people. Imagine if it was me, i show up in a place infact i am the one who need help, i found a black person there and begin to speak Venda, dont you think its rude? Be honest without diffending your people.

Cande
20 Nov 2008 13:42

@ Cande, Venda's are not ashamed of themselves


I have never said they were, maybe you were referring to someone else

nanazile
20 Nov 2008 13:45

Pitch, I live in PTA and when i speak to ppl i speak isiZulu coz once we try to speak isitswana ppl laugh at us and they tell us to stick to our language and i would rather i spoke isiZulu then English.

I work with Tswana lady who is helping me learn setswana while i teach her isiZulu so we can understand each other and not end up speaking english, if everyone waslike that, it would be easier for all of us , that we all teach each other learn all the different languages, i am a very proud NZule but i also want to learn other languages , mcuh as I REFUSE to speak Afrikaans even though i understnad i tell all afrikaaners i cant understand coz most of them refuse to speak other languages, and i know 1 afrikaaner who speaks 9 of the 11 languages in SA and i was so embarrased ukuthingihlulwa umlungu

Cande
20 Nov 2008 13:47

Cande response was that Venda's are not proud of who they are


Geez Pitch i never said they were NOT, it was Lepogo who said that i just copied and bolded & highlighted his response...
and i am NOT Zulu
I demand a public apology for FALSE ACCUSATION!!!!!!!!

Cande
20 Nov 2008 13:49

nanazile its spelt Setswana NOT Sitswana, OK????

and i learn Afikaans for the sake of knowing it, i couldn't care less if they learn Tswana..Its for my own benefit, just as much as it is for any other language...
Where is my Venda(Awelani & Tsonga) tutor???

nanazile
20 Nov 2008 13:52

YEBO GOGO!!

Cande
20 Nov 2008 13:57

I demand a public apology for FALSE ACCUSATION!!!!!!!!

I just feel kinda offended when people dont get my mother tongue spelling write, its like my friends used to say i am Tshwane???I mean WTF???? Tshwane is the former PTA  and I AM TSWANA!!!

I demand a public apology for FALSE ACCUSATION!!!!!!!!
I demand a public apology for FALSE ACCUSATION!!!!!!!!

AkaS
20 Nov 2008 13:58

@ Pitch forgive us ntombazana we're getting there before you notice we'll be speaking all this lang. And pliz we (Zulus) not all of us are stubborn as ppl can exxagarate like myself I try to speak all this lang but not yet fluent.

@maud: add me on yo frendz list too

Sana Lwam
20 Nov 2008 14:10

@Pitch >>Ndi langa lenelo a thi tshaya phanda.
I agree no more further comments. - Right neh Pitch.

I am proud to say that I came to Gauteng in 2001 from the Eastern Cape (where its only Xhosa, English and Afrikaans) and I can now speak Tswana, Sesotho, Zulu, Tsonga and now I'm learning to speak Venda.

I agree to some extent that some people (Xhosas included) can be ignorant when it comes to learning other languages, because at varsity and res the people from the Cape preferred to be on they own andeven formed a Xhosa society to embrass their Xhosaness nothing wrong with that but the wrong thing was that they said they will never speak a language that is not theirs yet they are more than happy to speak English and that is not our language.

felfel
20 Nov 2008 14:11

eish mara niyawasukela amaZulu, nithi abafundanga, bamdaka, ba rude, abo khandashisa, abo khandaqinileyo, bayashaya....ndibala ntoni na...........

carino
20 Nov 2008 14:16

I'm too lazy to read this whole thing and the responses.. but my 2cent's worth is...It's a personal choice... 

I speak English coz i need it to get by, communicate with the world... Ke bua Setswana coz Ke se anyile... Sesotho coz i lived with Sothos.. ke bolela SePedi coz i had a pedi boyfie, ek praat Afrikaans coz i lived with Afrikaners, and nditheth'isiXhosa and ngikhulum'isiZulu for the fun of it... 

My languages are highlighted in blue on my CV and its an advantage, in my industry...

A language cant die simply because people dont speak it in town... who cares if more Zulu is spoken in Jozi... there are millions of people who speak fluent Tswana ko Pitsedisulejang le ko Mogwase... 

Like I said.... I havent read the article, so if im out of line, i apologise.... 
I think i am actually coz i saw something to do with TV on the article.. but who cares?.. i'll just label this OFF_TOPIC, then...

Cande
20 Nov 2008 14:19

i keep on coming back here thinking Pitch has apologised to me...nxa

felfel
20 Nov 2008 14:24

Which varsity in the Cape Sana Lwam? cos i remember at UCT, baSotho had their own clique`s also, noot necessarily exclusive but they had Sotho parties at Forrest Hill. Cape Tech, baSotho guys also had their own clique`s.  Maybe, u referring to Pentech and UWC, of which i can understand why they would stick with each other, the majority of them come from the same kasi and they all use the train to get to campus and thus share that common ground.....anyway that's my understanding. 

Cande
20 Nov 2008 14:30

Maybe, u referring to Pentech and UWC, of which i can understand why they would stick with each other, the majority of them come from the same kasi and they all use the train to get to campus and thus share that common ground.....anyway that's my understanding. 

I am a former Pentech student, it this doesnt sit well with me...but anyway!!!

AkaS
20 Nov 2008 14:39

Thanx, Thanx ppl let's get back to the topic.......

Which language do you think is less respected on television?

What can be done to fix it? If possible, If not.... why? 

So let's contribute coz I want to submit this comments to the SABC Board for consideration....as from 2009

felfel
20 Nov 2008 15:00

I am a former Pentech student, it this doesnt sit well with me...but anyway!!!

Which part don't sit well with u Cande ? The fact that they come from ekasi, or that they use the train cos taxis are expensive and the bus takes forever????

carino
20 Nov 2008 15:01

There was nothing wrong with having our own baSotho party at Forest Hill... like i said... it goes with choice... If you decide to stick with your kind and not mingle with other tribes... so what? 

What i know is, people who wanted and were interested in knowing other languages, like me... we mixed and joined aboPASMA...

felfel
20 Nov 2008 15:08

Exactly Cariri its all about choice, nobody should be forced into anything and this goes back to the typical arguement of........"How Black are you" just cos u do this and don't do that............different strokes for differnt folks qha.........

Cande
20 Nov 2008 15:09

the majority of them come from the same kasi and they all use the train to get to campus and thus share that common ground

this part felfel

What i know is, people who wanted and were interested in knowing other languages, like me... we mixed and joined aboPASMA... 

he he he Carino it couldn't have been the case ko Pentech, the PASMA meetings were held in Xhosa..even i wanted to learn the language i felt like its almost as if they are not accomodating other tribes on campus

Sana Lwam
20 Nov 2008 15:17

felfel - I was never at varsity in the Cape - I said I came from the Cape (Eastern) to Gauteng thats where I did my tertiary.
As I said again, there is nothing wrong with the societies that were formed but also mixing with other people and learning their languages is good. We are a diverse country and why not use  the opportunity if you have it.

I for one am grateful or rather proud of the fact that I was not stereotype (in terms of language) and did not refuse to mix with other "iintlanga"

(I do not intend to offend any nation by saying intlanga but merely stressing a point, pls take it in good spirit ninga ndi rhavhuzi) LOL

nkanyezi
20 Nov 2008 15:26

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to comment on what was said about Zulu's not wanting to learn other languages. I am proudly Zulu and when i first came to Jhb I was shocked to find that everyone spoke Zulu. There was never a need to learn another language. Now at least, I work in a company with a few black people who are Tswana and when ever i try to say something in Tshwana they just laugh and say that I'm a typical zulu who can't pronounce anything properly. Now what the hell am i supposed to do? If i don't learn the language I'm called a typical zulu, when I try to learn it's just not good enough. KANTI NIFUNANI?

maud
20 Nov 2008 15:32

your all welcome to be my friends

Cande
20 Nov 2008 15:32

If you want to learn Nkanyezi continue learning, they will eventually get tired from laughing @ u...

pitch
20 Nov 2008 15:34

@Cande! I am sorry i was no longer here and i do apologise for that...i realise now that i have made a mistake. Please forgive me girlfriend. 

@Nanazile: my problem is not that you should not speak your language because people laugh at you and told you that you should stick to your language but i think its rude just show up in a place and start talking Zulu waya waya. What if the person you are talking too its not even South African and he/she doesnot understand anything you are saying. I think its polite to start maybe say morning orafternoon and you could ask if you could use your language.

I am saying this because i do have a friend we studied together at tertiary and she went to work in joburg and she is from Zim she always complain how unfriendly South Africans are because everytime Zulu's force to speak their language and dont care if you understand or not. I always told her to ignore them and told them in their face that she doesnot understand.

As for Afrikaners i also dont speak Afrikaans, though i could understand what they are saying but i always told them that i cant speak Afrikaans and its very funny when some of them would have to call someone to speak to me because they struggle to get the right english word because they also like to be spoonfed.

TheLady
20 Nov 2008 15:38

can we start with Tswana Maud?

Cande
20 Nov 2008 15:41

Apology accepted Pitch girlfriend...

realist
20 Nov 2008 15:47

when ever i try to say something in Tshwana they just laugh and say that I'm a typical zulu who can't pronounce anything properly. Now what the hell am i supposed to do? If i don't learn the language I'm called a typical zulu, when I try to learn it's just not good enough. KANTI NIFUNANI?
Right there you gave me a good laugh.
Don’t be stressed up about what they say,  the effort that you put in will eventually bear fruit.

maud
20 Nov 2008 15:49

@The Lady :it is called setswana(motho kemotho kabatho)

lesson for today

Cande
20 Nov 2008 16:00

try to say something in Tshwana they just laugh and say that I'm a typical zulu who can't pronounce anything properly. 

maybe its because you speaking Tshwana, you should perhaps try speaking Tswana...

nanazile
20 Nov 2008 16:14

its not that we are not trying bathong, we do try only batswana bako PTA find it funny so why should we be the laughing stock sawowonke umuntu??

I have a brother inlaw Zim and he atleast is tryign to teach us Shona and we are learnig as we will be goign to ZIm so we can understand and another brother in law from Slovakia and siyafunda coz we want to and they allow us to funda not ukuhlekisa ngathi

carino
20 Nov 2008 16:37

Nkanyezi>>>try to say something in Tshwana they just laugh and say that I'm a typical zulu who can't pronounce anything properly.

Cande>>> maybe its because you speaking Tshwana, you should perhaps try speaking Tswana...


kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa ROFL



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