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Luke
18th October 2007, 02:09
A ripper of an episode - dark and dangerous lies the future. Gotta love Nazi-like Parkman and Hiro watching himself die.

Cloud9
18th October 2007, 07:44
Yep, I agree. An absolute cracker. Love the dark and depressing future with half the cast dying.

Sylar being Nathan is seriously the most awesome reveal ever. The first time I watched it, I didn't see it coming and was completely floored. Rewatching the episode is a lot of fun because you can watch SyNathan closely and notice all the times when he's just a little bit off or when he speaks something with a distinctly Sylar inflection. Adrian Pasdar is fab in this episode.:notworthy::notworthy:

robyna
18th October 2007, 07:57
Help! I'm confused :confused:

Cloud didn't you say last week was the last episode? Eeeek! So i didn't think Heroes was gonna be on last night.

Artoo Detoo
18th October 2007, 08:03
Along with Company Man this was my favorite episode of the season. This is a show that routinely brings the goosebumps but none to greater effect than the SyNathan (tm Cloud) reveal, and the door closing on the Peter/Sylar throw-down. I don't know how TV could get better than that.

It makes you want to fist-pump and shout stuff at your LCD http://forum.football365.com/images/smiley_icons/icon_surprised.gif

Fingolfin
18th October 2007, 08:52
Now this is my favourite episode. That Peter Sylar duel (and how much of it we had to imagine) was fantastic. wow, just thinking about it gives me chills.

Cloud9
18th October 2007, 09:03
Cloud didn't you say last week was the last episode? Eeeek! So i didn't think Heroes was gonna be on last night.
I did? I do remember saying it was going to be a completely awesome episode. Definitely not the last. Still three episodes to go in this season.

Two questions: Why would Future Hiro speak in English with Ando and Present Hiro rather. And secondly, doesn't Claire look better as a brunette than a blonde?

Fingolfin
18th October 2007, 09:07
Two questions: Why would Future Hiro speak in English with Ando and Present Hiro rather.

So we can see how cool Hiro sounds with his new accent (:


And secondly, doesn't Claire look better as a brunette than a blonde?
She has hair?

Citanul
18th October 2007, 09:18
I did?

This is what you said about last week's episode:

Big things have happened in the last episode of Heroes.

EDIT: And to answer your question about Hiro speaking English, presumably he would have spent five years speaking English, becoming so used to it that even when confronted with Japanese people, he would still speak English first. I'm not convinced that he can completely lose his accent in five years though.

Cloud9
18th October 2007, 09:29
I was referring to the latest episode there. Sorry if I confused anyone. You can have a share of my waffles at HERA if I did.

batchick
18th October 2007, 09:32
Stunning episode. So many "Wow!!!" moments. Agreed, claire does look good brunette.
Will be interesting to look at characters in their present context and see if there are elements in their current characters that indicate which way they end up going in the end.

six
18th October 2007, 10:06
Adrian Pasdar was superb in this episode... He's not just a pretty face.

Peter looked gorgeous with that scar... I know... so much more happened and all I can think of is that scar. :) I'm shallow like that.

Great episode. I'd have to say that after "Company Man" this one has been the best so far...

I loved seeing how HRG and Matt's roles have been reversed.

Onkez
18th October 2007, 10:32
Damn SABC 3 & their promos,they spoiled the "Nathan=Sylar" reveal.Matt was such a biatch in this episode!I thought that Nikki said D.L was killed in the explosion but SyNathan phased through the door.Claire can't help involving herself with men.Were both Hiros played by Masi Oka?I don't like the new Peter,too dark.

Citanul
18th October 2007, 10:38
Damn SABC 3 & their promos,they spoiled the "Nathan=Sylar" reveal.

Really? I must have missed that bit in the promo. All I remember seeing was scenes from previous episodes.

I thought that Nikki said D.L was killed in the explosion but SyNathan phased through the door.

Niki just said that DL was gone, she didn't say how he went away. Hiro did say that DL was one of the people he brought to HRG, so DL couldn't have died in the explosion.

Fingolfin
18th October 2007, 10:41
Were both Hiros played by Masi Oka?

Yup! Amazing how he managed to portray both the naive bumbler and hardened samurai warrior so convinvingly.

Cloud9
18th October 2007, 10:42
Damn SABC 3 & their promos,they spoiled the "Nathan=Sylar" reveal.
Seriously??! :grr: Motherfrakkers.

I thought that Nikki said D.L was killed in the explosion but SyNathan phased through the door.Didn't she say it was Micah who was blown up? DL was just name-dropped in Peter's "They're all gone" speech. No-one actually said what happened to him. In fact, he must have gone into hiding and been killed after the explosion because he was one of the people Future Hiro asked HRG about, along with Candice and Molly.

Were both Hiros played by Masi Oka?Yep.

Citanul
18th October 2007, 10:55
Didn't she say it was Micah who was blown up?

Peter was the one who said that:
FUTURE PETER: (shouts) Because it was me! The bomb? It was me! I killed all those people. I killed Micah.

DL was just name-dropped in Peter's "They're all gone" speech.Oops. Yes, it was Peter who said it, not Niki.

Shakes
18th October 2007, 11:53
It makes you want to fist-pump and shout stuff at your LCD http://forum.football365.com/images/smiley_icons/icon_surprised.gif

I totally agree! I was gasping for air for half the episode and just when I thought it couldn't even get any better it was so frakking WOW, the SyNathan (brilliant Cloud9!) reveal knocked my socks off and after that came the battle between Sylar and Peter and Hiro dying. Holy sh*t!
:omg2: :omg2: :omg2:

This was seriously one of the best television series episodes I've ever watched in my entire life - of any programme or season ever.
It was so astounding and amazing and superb and thrilling that I only have the deepest sympathy for people who don't watch Heroes and don't get to experience this utterly brilliant story/episode.
I get short of breath and my armhairs start rising even if I just think about it. Peter was aweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesome!

*takes deep breath* Sorry. It's just that I was utterly blown away.

six
18th October 2007, 12:10
I don't like the new Peter,too dark.

I lurve that dark Peter. He's so... dangerous!! :blush:

Alex
18th October 2007, 13:35
Really? I must have missed that bit in the promo. All I remember seeing was scenes from previous episodes.

SABC3 spoiled the reveal during their promo for The Matrix trilogy, would you believe. They showed the scene over captions saying: Before there was Heroes, there was The Matrix. A-holes! :angry:

When I first saw this ep, I was utterly wowed but thought that it was kinda giving away too much - like it was too awesome to be really real.

But now I see its genius, depicting a possible, but realistic future ahead and how it will impact the choices characters will make along the way. I mean how many shows you love do you wish did things like this? Of course Six Feet Under did it fabulously in their season finale and I'd like to think the idea for this episode came from that! :wink:

I wound and rewound that bit where Peter threw that cop against the wall using his telekinesis. I wish we'd seen more of his showdown with SyNathan though. He's so bad-ass with his wife-beater and his new hair and that delicious scar. If that's how Peter turns out in the future I don't want them to stop the bomb! :notworthy: :wink:

Fingolfin
18th October 2007, 13:41
I've just remembered something that bugged me about this episode: this is supposed to be the future that would occur if they didn't save the cheerleader, right? But Claire is fine, is she not?? I'm just a bit confused on that point.

Shakes
18th October 2007, 14:24
I was confused by that as well.

Another point I don't understand as yet is that the reason they must save Claire is so that Sylar don't get her power and don't regenerate when Hiro stabs him.

But they've saved Claire - she lives - and this is still the future.
Sylar don't have regeneration, but he also still lives? How?

And how is stabbing Sylar going to stop Peter exploding - because that's just misdirection - it was actually Peter that exploded and not a soon to be kebab'ed Sylar?

Why would stabbing and killing Sylar lead to Peter NOT exploding? That's the question bugging me!

six
18th October 2007, 14:39
What I understood from the episode (and I could be wrong) is that Sylar lived because Hiro didn't kill him. I am assuming that the future that Hiro and Ando teleported into was one where Hiro had disappeared from the past and not returned. The problem with time travel is that its very paradoxical. There are no clear answers (imo) when you can time travel.

Citanul
18th October 2007, 14:44
Another point I don't understand as yet is that the reason they must save Claire is so that Sylar don't get her power and don't regenerate when Hiro stabs him.

But they've saved Claire - she lives - and this is still the future.
Sylar don't have regeneration, but he also still lives? How?

That was a problem as well, and I can't think of any way of explaining it.

And how is stabbing Sylar going to stop Peter exploding - because that's just misdirection - it was actually Peter that exploded and not a soon to be kebab'ed Sylar?

Why would stabbing and killing Sylar lead to Peter NOT exploding? That's the question bugging me!

It seems that the only people who actually know that it was Peter and not Sylar who exploded are Peter, Nathan and Sylar. The rest of the world thinks it's Sylar. Since the rest of the world includes Hiro, he also thinks that Sylar exploded, and therefore is under the impression that killing Sylar would stop the explosion.

I've just remembered something that bugged me about this episode: this is supposed to be the future that would occur if they didn't save the cheerleader, right? But Claire is fine, is she not?? I'm just a bit confused on that point.

I have an answer to that one (no idea if it's correct though), which relates to my previous point. Basically, Hiro got it wrong.

Saving the cheerleader is not the event that saves the world. There's some other event that results in the explosion being stopped, and it's something we haven't seen yet, as it looks as though everything we've seen happen also happened in the future timeline as well eg. the message being delivered, as Mohinder knew about it.

Alex
18th October 2007, 14:44
I think HRG led everyone to believe that Claire was dead in order to protect her. He was the only one who knew where she was. That's why Future Hiro thought she had been killed and realised she was alive when Present Hiro told him that Peter received the message and saved her life.

I'm more perplexed as to why Peter is alive after exploding, and he only has a gash across his face to show for it. And surely Peter must've known something was amiss if Nathan kept this fact from the public. Surely Peter would then have known that Sylar was in fact alive since he didn't cause the explosion. Why would he be complicit in Nathan's deceit?

As for the Sylar being killed question, I'm not sure but since he's the villain he needs to be killed regardless.

Fingolfin
18th October 2007, 14:47
Hrrmmm... all good points...

Perhaps Peter's 'survival' was due to him having Claire's power? Maybe it's a more powerful... power... than previously imagined.

Shakes
18th October 2007, 14:54
Another one: If Peter can regenerate - which is presumably why he survived the explosion - why doesn't the scar regenerate? Hmm? Hmm?

Not that I'm complaining - he looks so dramatic with it, but it isn't logically sound.

Citanul
18th October 2007, 14:56
What I understood from the episode (and I could be wrong) is that Sylar lived because Hiro didn't kill him.

The problem isn't that Hiro didn't kill Sylar, it's that Hiro said that Sylar regenerated. So a theory which I've just thought of is that maybe this is something else which Hiro got wrong - he thinks Sylar regenerated when in fact he just survived Hiro's attack.

After all, Hiro wouldn't have been that experienced using the sword when he stabbed Sylar, and so maybe he didn't deliver a killing blow. Sylar would have then had a chance to recover and assume Nathan's identity.

The problem with time travel is that its very paradoxical. There are no clear answers (imo) when you can time travel.

Definitely. Here's another paradox - the Present Hiro has the Future Hiro's sword. But that sword didn't come from Linderman's museum - it came from the Present Hiro (because he becomes the Future Hiro) who got it from the Future Hiro.

Those sort of paradoxes is why initially I was pleased that it looked as though they had set it up so that the future couldn't be changed. Now it appears as if the future can be changed.

I was going to complain about this misdirection, but then I remembered that when Hiro first travelled into the future and saw the explosion, Ando was in Japan and hadn't seen Hiro for five weeks. So the future can be changed, as Ando accompanied Hiro to America.

Fingolfin
18th October 2007, 15:02
Definitely. Here's another paradox - the Present Hiro has the Future Hiro's sword. But that sword didn't come from Linderman's museum - it came from the Present Hiro (because he becomes the Future Hiro) who got it from the Future Hiro.

Heeheeheehee man that's nuts. It's like an infinite circle of brain frakking.

Citanul
18th October 2007, 15:06
Another one: If Peter can regenerate - which is presumably why he survived the explosion - why doesn't the scar regenerate? Hmm? Hmm?

Perhaps he received the wound which caused the scar and then was unable to regenerate before the scar had formed (maybe he was in another coma). Unless he's close to Claire, the regeneration doesn't kick in automatically - he has to deliberately activate the ability.

I'm more perplexed as to why Peter is alive after exploding, and he only has a gash across his face to show for it.

The gash may not be as a result of the explosion, and using Claire's power may have enabled him to survive the explosion, as Fin pointed out.

And surely Peter must've known something was amiss if Nathan kept this fact from the public. Surely Peter would then have known that Sylar was in fact alive since he didn't cause the explosion. Why would he be complicit in Nathan's deceit?

They had to blame someone for the explosion, and Sylar was a useful scapegoat. If it was known that Peter caused the explosion there would have been problems for both Peter and Nathan - he may have kept his ability secret, and if it were known that his brother had one then it would raise suspicions about him, ruining his political career.

six
18th October 2007, 15:17
Another one: If Peter can regenerate - which is presumably why he survived the explosion - why doesn't the scar regenerate? Hmm? Hmm?


Maybe he chose not to regenerate it? To provide him with a reminder of what he can do.

I'm not complaining either. He looks really good. http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/images/smiles/love7.gif

Citanul
18th October 2007, 15:19
Heeheeheehee man that's nuts. It's like an infinite circle of brain frakking.

It gets even worse when you try and work out just how old that sword is if the infinite loop exists. :lol:

Here's some wild speculation - Future Hiro was surprised to see Present Hiro and Ando, suggesting that in his timeline Hiro and Ando never travelled to the future.

The reason Hiro and Ando were there is that they were trying to escape from Linderman's museum. Now what if in Future Hiro's timeline, Ando had never helped Hiro and Hiro had found some other way to get hold of the sword?

Perhaps as a result of Hiro and Ando having travelled to the future, they wind up being able to prevent it. This would mean that non-powered Ando, who to some extent was there for comic relief, turns out to be the one who is the key to saving the future.

Don't know if there's any validity to that idea though.

Prawn
18th October 2007, 15:40
In fact, he must have gone into hiding and been killed after the explosion because he was one of the people Future Hiro asked HRG about, along with Candice and Molly.


Can you guys refresh my memory - who is Candice? Or is that someone who is still coming?

Amazing episode :omg2:

Alex
18th October 2007, 15:42
Ok, after all that I think I'm going to stop questioning anything they do on Heroes, esp anything regarding timelines, and just enjoy the freaking amazing ride!

Alex
18th October 2007, 15:44
Can you guys refresh my memory - who is Candice? Or is that someone who is still coming?

The brunette woman in the short skirts who works for The Company and is able to morph into other characters.

So far we've seen her alter into Simone (after she'd been killed), Nikki (actually it was Jessica) and Sandra Bennett.

Citanul
18th October 2007, 15:45
Can you guys refresh my memory - who is Candice?

Candice is the woman who can change her appearance. I'm not sure if her name's ever been mentioned, hence the confusion.

Prawn
18th October 2007, 15:55
Thanks Alex and Cit - know now who that is, didn't realise her name was Candice :wink:

Sylar must also be using her power if he is able to "become" Nathan, so doesn't that mean she's dead???

Cloud9
18th October 2007, 15:58
I think her name was mentioned when Thompson introduced her. Easy to miss it.

Fun fact: If you look back at the screenshot of The List (http://www.tvsa.co.za/forum/showpost.php?p=103464&postcount=53), you can partially see her name (spelled Candace beack then for some reason).

ETA: Yeah, it's a safe bet Sylar killed her along with DL.

Citanul
18th October 2007, 15:59
Sylar must also be using her power if he is able to "become" Nathan, so doesn't that mean she's dead???

Pretty much. In fact, when he was talking to Claire, SyNathan said something along the lines of meeting a woman named Candice who helped him become the president. Obviously that statement was meant a bit more literally than it usually would be.

Cloud9
18th October 2007, 16:03
Pretty much. In fact, when he was talking to Claire, SyNathan said something along the lines of meeting a woman named Candice who helped him become the president. Obviously that statement was meant a bit more literally than it usually would be.
How dim am I that when I watched the episode for the first time, I didn't cotton on to the fact that this was Sylar who'd killed her ass. I was wondering if Nathan had like used her to smear the reputations of his political opponents by having her pose as them in compromising positions.:rolleyes:

Citanul
18th October 2007, 16:05
I think her name was mentioned when Thompson introduced her. Easy to miss it.

Her name is mentioned three times.

Episode 18 - When she and HRG visit Isaac and she pretends to be Simone:

MR. BENNET: My, you're very useful.

(Isaac looks at Mr. Bennet, then turns to looks at "Simone". "Simone" and her surroundings warp and change back to Candice, who is standing in front of the bed with the real Simone’s body on it.)

(Isaac is freaking.)

MR. BENNET: Candice is special, just like you.

Episode 19 - When she pretends to be Claire:

("Claire" smiles at him. She warps and changes back into Candice. Mr. Bennet stares at her. Thompson appears in the doorway.)

THOMPSON: Why don't you leave us alone, Candice?And just after she leaves:

THOMPSON: You got too close. And then you got sloppy.

MR. BENNET: I saw what your girl Candice can do. Maybe you're the one who got sloppy. Maybe I'm exactly where I want to be.

Lingo
18th October 2007, 18:10
It should be said that Candice can do more than morph into other characters (like the X-Men's Mystique). She can generally change the appearance of her surroundings as well as herself (which is how she hid Simone's body from the police).

As for "Molly Parker": you've met her before, and you'll re-meet her next week.

Onkez
18th October 2007, 22:45
And secondly, doesn't Claire look better as a brunette than a blonde?
:hmm: I'll have to go with blonde.

Cloud9
19th October 2007, 07:55
Hey, no fair. You know very few people look good when they're having their head cut open.

Citanul
19th October 2007, 08:44
Hey, no fair. You know very few people look good when they're having their head cut open.

That's just because not enough people have tried.

Fingolfin
19th October 2007, 08:57
It should be said that Candice can do more than morph into other characters (like the X-Men's Mystique). She can generally change the appearance of her surroundings as well as herself (which is how she hid Simone's body from the police).

Is it that she can change the surroundings, or just affect what people see? I think there was a character like that in the 4400 who made people think he was someone else, but his identity could be revealed on camera.

Lingo
19th October 2007, 21:06
I did say the appearance of her surroundings. I don't think the surroundings themselves magically change. What's the difference between changing the appearance of the surroundings and "affecting what people see"?

Fingolfin
22nd October 2007, 09:13
Nothing, now that you say it that way (: