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Schedule Alert: Election Debates 2009

Written by TVSA Team from the blog SABC2 on 11 Jan 2009
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Schedule alert

Tonight (Sunday, 11 January, 2009) SABC2 will be broadcasting a special election debate following the recent announcement of the ANC's election manifesto.

The show is on at 21h00 and runs an hour.





136 Comments

DJ Why why
11 Jan 2009 21:57

Politix is a dirty game, who is telling da truff??

realist
12 Jan 2009 09:23

Did they have to do the show on weekend? Some of us have a life past watching TV on weekend. Try during the week, might work wonders numbers wise.

tha - bang
13 Jan 2009 13:43

i enjoyed the debate im looking forward to more.if only they could make them 2hours instead of one

realist
13 Jan 2009 13:57

@Thabang
Of the participants that were there, who impressed you the most? Hope next one is not on the weekends.

AkaS
13 Jan 2009 14:25

When are the elections? Am just interested on getting a holiday nothing more. 

I read on newspaper yeste that most preferred date for elections is 15 April why can't they choose other month. April is much occupied with holidays. At least to choose somewhere in May

GoldenSta
13 Jan 2009 14:39

<<if only they could make them 2hours instead of one>> tha-bang I think on radio (SAFM) they are 2 hours its just on TV that they are 1 hour

NtandoN
13 Jan 2009 15:34

SABC is the mouthpiece of the ANC, they give too much airtime to the ruling party and not to other parties.

Other parties are not being marketed as ANC and their interviewing style leaves much to be desired. Let Deborah Patta do all the interviews and interview the shower man.

Cande
13 Jan 2009 15:38

Helen Zille impressed me the most

NtandoN
13 Jan 2009 15:52

Helen Zille always knows what she's talking about but the fact that she's white and that ANC has a sentimental value to the blacks will make it impossible for DA to win the elections.

I am gonna register to vote next month and my vote is not going to a group of convicts, the fact that somebody went to jail does not qualify that person to have a position in the government.

If the ruling party cared about SA they would have appointed another candidate for the presidency as the investors have already shown that they do not have the confidence in the current ANC president, his court apperances are weakening the rand.

Cande
13 Jan 2009 17:58

Helen Zille always knows what she's talking about 

am glad u someone agrees 

If the ruling party cared about SA they would have appointed another candidate 

EXACTLY

Brown Shuga
13 Jan 2009 18:22

Thato, I'm worried about where your vote is going....*shakes head*

Bra Bizza
13 Jan 2009 18:24

nami Shuga im worried

Bra Bizza
13 Jan 2009 18:42

current ANC president, his court apperances are weakening the rand.....when Tito Mboweni was about to be appointed as Governor of the Reserve Bank, the Rand lost its value....when Trevor Manuel was appointed as Minister of Finance, the markets tumbled...so what does couple of court appearences mean....i mean the guy has been in court for the past 7 yrs.....shouldn't our value of the rand be equal to Zim if we advanced your argument?

Lady D
13 Jan 2009 23:15

Amen Bra Bizza

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 07:31

Back then he wasn't holding a critical position and now he is the ANC president and might be the SA president. Look at the position that the persons you mentioned are occupying.

My vote is going to DA, IFP or COPE. ANC has been given more than 10 yrs to fix whatever they thought was wrong but have failed dismally, the poor are more poorer.

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 07:47

How do you explain the fact that most government official are either convicts, under investigation for corruption, friends with criminals, drunken driving, all ANC members and the list is endless. This is Zanu PF in making.

Apartheid government build 4 bedroom houses for the poor which most people are still living in, ANC used to call those houses 'matchboxes' and what did they build when they took over? Mansions? 1 open plan room where adults don't have privacy and are forced to sleep with their kids.

Need I say more about the policies, children's right without imposing obligations!kids as young as 12 allowed to use contraceptives! The latest Chinese being classified as Blacks?

Let's see how our IT degree holders are gonna compete with a 6 months cerificate holders from China?

Cande
14 Jan 2009 07:47

Im not saying i am voting DA, am just saying Helen Zille makes more sense than all the political parties's presidents combined *am exaggerating a bit*

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 08:16

What about the +/-10 million refugees that we're catering for? We transport food to their countries, feed them here in SA and they also take back food to their countries and you expect food to cost less? Cooking oil? What happens when the demand exceeds the supply?

During apartheid years not more than 1 million South Africans went to other african countries and now we suupose to embrace every african in SA because they are our brothers and have help us during the struggle.

Mugabe's a freedom fighter he's not abusing fellow Zimbabweans, they voted for him when he has a rally, the stadium would be packed of his supporters then they run to SA.

Nigerians, they leave their women behind and pimp our women, Somalians have killed so many of their presidents.

maddie
14 Jan 2009 08:36

Helen Zille makes more sense than all the political parties's presidents


I was watching the debate and I usually try to be as objective and open minded as possible and I agree with the above statement. 

Helen Zille made more sense than the rest, that woman is good. I think she'll make a good president some day. it's dissappointing to see the majority of South Africans being taken for a ride like this by the ruling party.
same promises and no action and people still vote for them. 

when are people going to see through these politicians, if the country goes down, we've got no one to blame but ourselves, cos we're the ones responsible for putting these people into power without making them accountable.

lepogo
14 Jan 2009 08:42

I am not voting for the ANC this time-nor COPE-cos its still the same soup-just in a different bowl.

I'd rather vote IFP,the old man is proving to be the only voice of reason and sense in the current landscape

Renegade
14 Jan 2009 08:47

Not voting is a vote for the opposition. So mina the UDM has my vote. (Granted I still need to research, but they are the only party that strikes me on face value)

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 08:55

Lepogo: Here in SA if you mentioned anything about IFP people wanna kill you as it is associated with apartheid, it is believed that ANC is the only party who fought against apartheid.

Not everyone is objective and open minded as Maddie said and we are even losing respect for elderly people as blacks, eg: All the political party leaders are called by their surnames, Mandela, Zuma, Mbeki, Holomisa and so on.

But there's one who the ANC has disrespected in such a way that even a 2 year old kid calls him Gatsha, have you ever heard anyone calling him Buthelezi?

mjj
14 Jan 2009 09:08

lol

AkaS
14 Jan 2009 10:17

NtandoN: if you vote for COPE 10 yrs down you'll still be crying & complaining these ppl were ANC for as long as I lived so they'll use the same strategy in their party NOTHING new.

I don't know which party must vote for ja if Helen Zille is the right candidate is just that it doesn't feel good to vote for whitey

AkaS
14 Jan 2009 10:19

@ NtandoN: LOL at all yo comments

GoldenSta
14 Jan 2009 10:25

LOL @ Gatsha I haven't heard that name being used in a long time...

realist
14 Jan 2009 10:48

When watching that show and sobering up, I think Cande has got a point. Zille was making good points. She was able to lie and lie good. That minister of transport, Jeff Radebe was useless. I thought he had a good experience when it comes to lying, I guess I was wrong. Bantu Holomisa made good telling points.

cleve
14 Jan 2009 11:00

I will vote ANC the more they put up Jacob Zuma for trial the more they make me vote for him. 

Politicians are all liars. We are too many for them to SAVE us all. There will always be people who are not honest and chow the govrnments money. 

And nna I would like to see the four bedroomed house that was for free given by the apartheid government)

Maybe if i change my vote it will be for Helen Zille. Cope is jsut another ANC in deiffernt colours,they are the people who were running the country all these years and what will change????

cleve
14 Jan 2009 11:03

oops guys, I never proof read my stuff that explains the spelling mistakes. (just too lazy)

myname
14 Jan 2009 11:25

I always love Holomisa's attitude. He is straight forward. I wish he can give me that "tell like it is". But sometimes i feel like uyadelela

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 11:53

Cleve I meant 4 room houses, most in Soweto eg Meadowlands and compare them to the current RDP houses.

ANC found the country in a healthy state, infrastructures were there, roads were there, almost everything was there they are just renovating what the previous government has build.

Our educational system is rated the worst in the world with a required pass rate of 30% but learners are still failing that's what you get by allowing a grade 2 to rule the country.

Government doesn't have money, every month a huge amount of money is deducted from my salary to support the ANC members and their wives. Before 94 I never heard of any scandal about the NP official investigated for corruption or abusing tax payers money I wonder why?

I think ANC has to take responsibility and declare that they are incompetent of running SA instead of blaming the whites, we've given them 14yrs already do they need more than that?

makgotso
14 Jan 2009 11:58

Politics, politics, ja neh. I wish to see nami Cleve those free four bedrooms 'cause I see ekasi langakithi it's those small streets ezihamba ikari eyodwa. We even call them ama one street. Let me stop right here ngingaze ngibe usopolotiki nami

realist
14 Jan 2009 11:59

Our educational system is rated the worst in the world with a required pass rate of 30% but learners are still failing that's what you get by allowing a grade 2 to rule the country.
Next it will require only 20% to pass. Only in Africa can this happen.

makgotso
14 Jan 2009 12:18

Before 94 I never heard of any scandal about the NP official investigated for corruption or abusing tax payers money I wonder why? Ntandoh, have u ever heard about white collar crimes, bayawashaya ke and abave begood to cover them up, I'm an auditor I know.

tha - bang
14 Jan 2009 12:37

I actually was impressed by terror and zille , i think they have embraced the format quite well.although terror could do with some more polshing. The debates are good and im finding them informative.like for one the issue about it will trake at least 3 years for new policies to be implemented whilst the old ones are faded out,i didnt know that.
i think its better to choose candidates who can make a case for themselves and convince you logicaly and their thought be up for public scrutiny and in this regard the sabc is doing a great public service,now if only all the party leaders would come on board.
BTW NP was fraught with major scandals of corruption and kickbacks, thanks to the broerbond and restrictive press legislation and the system not everything was made public.But it does not excuse the rampant corruption that is happening right now in the country though

lepogo
14 Jan 2009 12:44

thabza-Terror needs more than polishing-prayers,methinks..

Other than that,more ppl will vote this time around,Im just glad that true colours will be exposed this time around and that will prove to the rest of the world that we are just another African State

Sbam
14 Jan 2009 13:06

Joo, pple is just a pity Helen Zille is a president of DA, coz if she was not she was sure going to have my vote.  I agree with everybody who says she was the sound one in that panel.  The woman is gud, and clear about what she is doing.  I have a total confidence in her as a leader, bt like i said I can't vote for DA ( reminds me of the past)

Not yet convinced ka Cope, i'm taking my time on them,  but Anc shem ...... lost confidence in them.

Lemme continue reading ur replies!!!!

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 13:41

Ntandoh, have u ever heard about white collar crimes, bayawashaya ke and abave begood to cover them up, I'm an auditor I know. 
Meaning that the previous government was like a business concern which is why only few people knew that there was corruption. 

Auditing ANC would be a waste of time, it's about time we vote for the right party irrespective of the colour and stop acting like we owe the ANC something, whoever went to jail went for his wife and family not me.

Their kids received the best education ever eg Thabo Mbeki and you? Shabir Shaik is in jail as we speak for helping his broke friend financially.

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 13:58

Ntando, you said...

ANC found the country in a healthy state, infrastructures were there, roads were there, almost everything was there they are just renovating what the previous government has build.

REALLY????????? FOR REAL???? YOU BELIEVE THAT???????  WOW. just.... WOW!!!  the apartheid regime did a better thought at brainwashing than i realised.... WOW!!!

as for voting IFP - never, i'll die first. they DID conspire and work with the apartheid government, proven and admitted fact. If they've changed, that's fine - but let it be said, for the record, there is irrefutable proof,  those people worked with the apartheid govt to kill fellow blacks.  Boipatong, anybody????  just a thought.

realist
14 Jan 2009 14:05

You make an interesting point there Thabang. Agree Terror needs some PR lessons.

mjj
14 Jan 2009 14:08

sour my baby....nam i'm still shocked at some of the comments on this article.....then again i'm not politically minded.....

But certain things mentioned here are shocking, and reveal that WE as the previously disadvantaged still have what i call APARTHEID MENTALITY.......let me pray.........

I'm just excited that young people are eager to VOTE.......its about time.....don't matter who you vote for as long as you vote.....Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Cande
14 Jan 2009 14:13

now if only all the party leaders would come on board. @ tha-bang.. a leader of some party that i do not wanna mention is ducking public debates, Mam Zille mentioned gore it was the 4th one he is still sending representatives

mjj
14 Jan 2009 14:18

Shame, tell mom Zille uzakulinda ukuza kukanxele....... I wonder how many requests did she make for the previous leader of that other party i don't want to mention........

Cande
14 Jan 2009 14:27

LMAO

vovos
14 Jan 2009 14:38

Hey all. Ive been reading your replies and have been enjoying reading all the topics you guys discuss.  Wel, Im kinda new,and am happy to be here....

I must agree with some of u, Mama Zille is really good in politics, but she's a DA leader ke, cant vote for her. And Holomisa on the other side is also good and I believe he can make a great President.

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 14:43

sweetie my baby: Compare the state of the country before 94 and now and tell me what has improved? Except that Blacks are now allowed in town after 6.

Look at how dirty JHB CBD is, how it stinks, how unsafe it is? Surely it's not the same as it was in 94 because we had the police force that can control crime.

The only thing that was wrong about NP was apartheid, they had the right policies and they were able to provide for the blacks. About the proof you have that IFP colluded with NP I'm not so sure.

It's surprising that some political leaders died in jail or after they were released because they were poisoned while some spent time in jail and even given an opportunity to study while inside!!

 Would the whites hate somebody so much that they teach him knowing that he's dangerous?

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 14:51

Terror & Malema i hate 2admit but melie-meal of the same bag ....bayaphahluka nje ! 

As 4 my vote ZUMA ZUMA ZUMA ZUMA ZUMA!!

Funny thing about abo Holomisa,Helen & Terror...all they talk about is the negative things ANC has done but say nothing about wat they r willing 2do 4the country or what they are about bona!!
Their comments r monotonous manje ....Zuma did this the ANC did that nywe nywe ...*urg* 

Terro rjust has yellow running down his spine ....nxxx!!!

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 14:57

NtandoN *shouting* KHUZA UMHLOLA!!HAAAAAIIBOOOOOOOO

The only thing wrong about the NP was apartheid they had the right policies and 


WERE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR BLACKS!!!!!!!!
ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR BLACKS 
TO PROVIDE FOR BLACKS 
PROVIDE FOR BLACKS
FOR BLACKS
BLACKS!!!

uvelaphi siye nathi!!

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 15:16

mabhebheza: One thing I have noticed about Zuma supporters is that they are emotional not logical.

Mugabe also hate whites that's why he's chased them away and now he's suffering the consequences, these people have created an illusion called money and they know how it works.

Mugabe thought he could survive without them by printing out money, how's Zimbabwe now, these people created ZAR and Zim dollar and without them there's no money.

Lets also chase them away and see who's gonna farm for us and how's SA gonna be like in 5 yrs time?

mjj
14 Jan 2009 15:20

uvelaphi siye nathi!! lol @ Mabhebheza

The only thing wrong about the NP was apartheid they had the right policies..........kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa

Let me read the replies AGAIN........

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 15:25

kulele kunye ngabe kubile ngabe kuyavusana.....
NtandoN haai sana ungehlule singalwanga ...i rest my suitcases kabe ur the NtandoN awusho kambe ur the blogger ushaye i 3hr foreplay* im not being offtopic tryin 2khumbula u ( 2many bloggers!!)????????

realist
14 Jan 2009 15:26

mabhebheza: One thing I have noticed about Zuma supporters is that they are emotional not logical.
Mugabe thought he could survive without them by printing out money, how's Zimbabwe now, these people created ZAR and Zim dollar and without them there's no money. 
That in a nutshell is the bottom line. I now rest my case

Sbam
14 Jan 2009 15:28

Ntando o kgwa mollo abhuti !!!  but strong points u r making, whether we want to admit it or not (nakong nnete ya baba) !!!!!

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 15:31

Ntando said...

sweetie my baby:
Compare the state of the country before 94 and now and tell me what has improved? Except that Blacks are now allowed in town after 6.

hmm, let's see - maybe it's an age thing (i'm in my mid-thirties) and BELIEVE ME, sh!t has IMPROVED drastically for blacks!!!  education - it's far from ideal, but believe me bantu education was training you to be a maid/gardener - and not much else...


Look at how dirty JHB CBD is, how it stinks, how unsafe it is? Surely it's not the same as it was in 94 because we had the police force that can control crime.

by controling crime i trust you realise that this meant keeping those dirty blacks in the lokshin where they belonged. if you were black and in town, best you be sweeping the streets, or making someone's tea - otherwise, into the back of this police van you get!

The only thing that was wrong about NP was apartheid, they had the right policies and they were able to provide for the blacks. About the proof you have that IFP colluded with NP I'm not so sure

i like how you say *the ONLY thing that was wrong about the NP was apartheid* - i'll tell that to my dead uncle who was blown up along with his 6 year old nephew in the cross-border raids in gaborone in '85 by apartheid operatives.
i'll also make sure to mention it to his 22 year old daughter who wasn't even born when her dad was killed..
not to mention my neighbour ko katlehong who was detained and tortured in solitary coninement as a14 year old in 1984 because he attended a 'troublesome' high school. i'll also make a point of letting steve biko, chief luthuli, victoria mxenge, the cradock 4.... [fill in the blanks of anyone you know/ know of who were killed by apartheid operatives] that the only thing wrong with the NP was a little thing called apartheid.... IYO!!!

they had the 'right policies' - like spend R3 on a black childs education, R15 on a coloured/indian childs education and R55 on a white childs education-  um.... YEAH!

my love... let's you and i take a little trip to the apartheid museum, ok?  Then we'll break out some literature, like... transcripts of the truth and reconciliation committee testimonials... it's all very enlightening about this little thing called apartheid.

as for the IFP and their apartheid connection - it\s all there in black and white - they admitted to it. the star uncovered the whole expose of de klerks' government giving inkatha weapons to attach ANC supporters, and create chaos in 1992 to make it look like the blacks couldn't govern...

and remember - buthelezi headed up the Kwa Zulu HOMELAND in the '70's and 80's - the significance of this? homeland states were created to get blacks out of the fertile farm areas and cities - it was apartheid in action - mazulu ko Kwazulu, Batswana ko Bophutatswana, MaXhosa in Ciskei & Transkei, etc - so if you were a leader of ANY of the homelands, what you were basically saying was that you AGREED with the racist policies and were fine with your people living on 3% of barren, hostile land, even though blacks forme 97% of the population.....

 not to patronise you.... but i think... YOU. JUST.DON'T. GET. IT.  the jewish nation have done a very good job about understandi

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 15:39

*clapping* 
Sweetie my baby ...uzohlangu my baby baby ..
my luv sesihlangana amarankeni

NtandoN is ur white boss standing behind u as u type ur replies .??
.im sure uncenga isikhudla mfo!! Or mayb an advance plus January enedlala

vovos
14 Jan 2009 15:41

YHO!!! sweetie my baby, did u do history @ school? Sana I didnt know half the things u jst said. 

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 15:51

heh heh, thanx for the support mabhebhez le vovos....i thought my head was gonna explode, i actually had to leave out so much....

 yes, i did do history and my teachers were fantastic, plus i'm just fascinated by it,  but i also grew up very aware, thanks to my grandfather...whenever we watched the news with the propoganda sabc telling us one story, he'd be breaking down the real sh!t immediately, just so there was no confusion in my little head about who the bad guys were.

what i don't understand ka wena ntando is that you're behaving like you grew up in another universe.... weren't you here seeing and experiencing the same things everyone else was....????

mjj
14 Jan 2009 15:56

AS I SAID EARLIER.....

sour my baby....nam i'm still shocked at some of the comments on this article.....then again i'm not politically minded.....

But certain things mentioned here are shocking, and reveal that WE as the previously disadvantaged still have what i call APARTHEID MENTALITY.......let me pray.........

No more will i ever call you sour my baby.........you know i got love for you.......(sweetie my baby)....

As i told my younger sister the other day......IGNORANCE is devil.........

Let me PRAY AGAIN

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 15:57

mabhebheza: I'm sure you work for a black boss maybe Zuma (Pty) Ltd, compare salary of domestic worker of a black and that of white person!

Now the ANC has implemented OBE but you still find them sending their kids to whites school, is that the improvement?

If Buthelezi was colluding with NP the ANC would have nailed him and put him in jail for good, they hate him with passion it's just that they cannot find something to nail him with.

Most blacks were not domestic workers or gardeners before 94 it depended on your level of education, we had teachers, doctors and so on.

I love the OBE as it allowed us to be ruled by a grade 2 graduate

Cande
14 Jan 2009 16:01

guys is it possible to leave the past where it belongs? in the past?? please talk about the present and the future.. but all in all this is a great article for me to read

vovos
14 Jan 2009 16:07

Ja Sweetie my baby, u must have been good neh. En sana thanx 4the update.  U kno, I only watched Sarafina en thats all I know about the past. En from that, I jst know that I neva wanted wanna go back there. So everyone, PLEASE VOTE FOR A BLACK PARTY EN NOT DA,ID OR ANY OTHER WHITE PARTY. 

NtandoN
14 Jan 2009 16:09

Unfortunately I grew up in SA, the present is terrifying, in the future I see Zimbabwe.

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 16:09

MOSES KGOSANA ....yeah Ntando im proudly working 4u darkie...google helps!
Mjj ndinawe emthandazweni...izinye izinto r beyond repair

mjj
14 Jan 2009 16:13

vovos.....you are being racist manje......and no this is not a campaign blog......LOL

vovos
14 Jan 2009 16:15

IM NOT, IM JST BEING REAL

Beyonce
14 Jan 2009 16:15

Ntando: Do you really do that 3hr foreplay Mabhebeza is talking about? I really need to know

cleve
14 Jan 2009 16:17

SHOO, talk about being brainwashed!!!!!!!!!

cleve
14 Jan 2009 16:21

It's surprising that some political leaders died in jail or after they were released because they were poisoned while some spent time in jail and even given an opportunity to study while inside!! 

Uyabona la, you don't know what you are talking about Ntando.

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 16:26

Ntando said...
If Buthelezi was colluding with NP the ANC would have nailed him and put him in jail for good, they hate him with passion it's just that they cannot find something to nail him with.

there was this little process called the TRC where it was agreed that the sins committed pre-1994 would be excused IF YOU ADMITTED TO THEM. hence the term TRUTH & RECONCILLIATION... which is why the majority of the pre-94 apartheid cops aren't rotting in jail....

Most blacks were not domestic workers or gardeners before 94 it depended on your level of education, we had teachers, doctors and so on.

oh yeah, how could i forget about the miners, the exploited farm labourers,  the security guards,  the people who put the groceries in your bags, not to mention the MILLIONS of unemployed blacks...

dr. nthato motlana died last year... a hero of the anti-apartheid struggle. did you not read the newspaper reports that said that at one point, in 1978, HE WAS THE ONLY DOCTOR IN SOWETO?????

Cande said...
guys is it possible to leave the past where it belongs? in the past??

my problem is that i don't believe this is our past....i believe that we're still living it in that if AFFECTS our present. the fact is that most black people in their mid-thirties and up were subjected to shi!tty bantu education, and therefore have a drastically reduced chance of going beyond a certain point professionally.

the legacy of apartheid is still with us - and i'm not saying we should scream about it every day - but don't be deceived into thinking that we're all beginning at the same level, we're not.





sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 16:27

@mjj - i'm glad that i'm back to being your 'sweetie', hee hee!!

myname
14 Jan 2009 16:29

This is interesting guys but kausane. Robela pele.

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 16:31

Nami Beyonce i need 2knw becoz if he is that blogger ngoba if he is i wudnt be suprised by his mentality!! 

NtandoN 
Unfortunatly u grew up SA...(kuyi bhadi kanti ukuba i South african kuwe) shame bandla im sure  Israel ko Gaza  wud b Miami 2u!! U must b isizukulu saka Pik Botha noma ihlongandlebe lomdeni wake Viljoen!

mjj
14 Jan 2009 16:32

lol @ Beyonce.....

Hi Cleve............

Yazi politics is a dirty game....hence i just let people believe what they believe.........

cleve
14 Jan 2009 16:39

Hey Mjj,

I know, I hate politics just gets too emotional.

mjj
14 Jan 2009 16:40

lol @ Mabhebheza.....

LM
14 Jan 2009 17:04

Interesting!

I like and agree with most of the points SMB and Ntando are making...go on with your  debate guys, some of us are being educated at the same time but please don't be personal  (SMB?) and try to impose your views on others.

Mjj: you are standing on the fence, o legwala!

Mabhebheza: NtandoN is ur white boss standing behind u as u type ur replies .?? .im sure uncenga isikhudla mfo!! Or mayb an advance plus January enedlala. This statement is just not necessary, along with the 3hr foreplay one. make your point/s and move to your next argument, just like SMB! Ntando is entitled to his own views...

Nna, I know zilch about politics and their politics!

Amen

Cande
14 Jan 2009 17:12

thanx LM, that sooo sooo true

mjj
14 Jan 2009 17:23

Kanti there was a fence? Eish my lower grade education can be blamed.....Let me read the Bible.....I think i need Jesus in my life....in fact i need him right now....

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 17:33

LM said....

but please don't be personal  (SMB?)

with pleasure - but i'm not sure where i got personal... please cut and paste, and i'll change my tone, promise.  i don't believe in attacking people -just ideas that i consider badly thought out or completely misinformed.

by debating, and arguing our points, we become wiser, because you have to really justify your point of view, and back it up with hard facts. and at the risk of sounding arrogant, ntando has no hard facts, just a bunch of strange ideas about apartheid and it's 'good' policies...

i guess when one feels so strongly about s'thing, our language is strong, but i make an honest effort to keep it on a respectful level, and not lower the debate to a catfight...

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 17:45

I guess when one feels strongly about s'thing our language is strong
SMB:
True dat eintlek sum if not most of us have lost loved ones due 2the past the horrible past that seems 2b glorified but abanye ..Apartheid did just affect our families & friends it affected minds & mentality of peolpe it affected the lifestlye & the future of most black ppl!

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 17:51

LM - said  - please don't try to impose your views on others.

i'm not trying to impose my views  - i'm trying to expose some facts about the realities of apartheid. and this isn't info that's exclusive to me - it's right there in our newspaper archives, books on apartheid, documentaries, TRC archives - and most importantly - our mothers, fathers, uncles, grandparents - they are the ULTIMATE authorities and  info resource on the evils of apartheid and the daily humiliations black/coloured/indian people had to endure under that bullsh!t system....

back to my point...these are not my views. these are the FACTS. and there are many, many, many more....

it is a FACT that bantu education was meant to create a class of workers - NOT an educated citizenry.

it is a FACT that the apartheid regime, through its police force and army,  brutalized and killed thousands upon thousands of black people systematically over decades.

it is a FACT that the National Party funded the IFP and gave them weapons to create a 'third force' and destablize South African townships so that Mandela would not look like a credible leader (it's right there in the Star archives AND Mandela's autobiography)  - that's when he gave de Klerk a tongue lashing and famously said that he was 'a man without honour'  - i remember coz it caused an international scandal, as they shared a Nobel Peace Prize.

it is a FACT that the homelands were poor, barren, undeveloped and propped up by the apartheid government. (even Bop - the cities were fabulous (Mmabatho, etc) , but the rural areas were POOR & NEGLECTED!)  it is a FACT that leaders of the homelands were colluding with the apartheid government by agreeing to squash so many people into so little space, and even by agreeing that each 'tribe' belonged in its own little piece of shi!tty land.

if i sound arrogant guys, please forgive me &  understand that's not my intention. it just makes me crazy that some people are so out of touch with our own history, it allows people to play all kinds of games with us and steal away what so, so, so many people shed blood and died for -

and this stuff didn't happen so long ago, all the events i'm referring to happened within my lifetime... have a conversation with your grandmother, or mother for that matter about their lives, their choices (or lack thereof), access to education/health care/work/accommodation  under apartheid - and ASK them if life is honestly better today or during apartheid... i'd be very interested in the answers....

Now i think i'll join MJJ amd mabhebheza in prayer....

MADENZA
14 Jan 2009 18:07

sweetie i liked the fact that u stated facts before going to prayer in the process u enlightened sum of us unlike going to prayer without stating facts which to me should not been posted as reply.

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 18:07

Sweetie MB yini kodwa ukuvusa amanxeba mchana ...
I went the Hector P museum 2weeks with my 3yr old niece ..all she kept on askin is y madubula abatwana ...when we walked out sum white tourist were walking in so they tried playin with her she was so freaked out becoz of what she saw White man shooting school kids!!..............................

Yah neh mandithandaze!!

mjj
14 Jan 2009 18:15

if i sound arrogant guys, please forgive me & understand that's not my intention. it just makes me crazy that some people are so out of touch with our own history - i told you to let people believe what they believe.....

There's nothing funny than people who speak out of reference and still think they are correct......Yes sometimes our excitement allows us to say things we know nothing about......but when you are corrected you need to acknowledge that.....

Here's my point.... Most blacks were not domestic workers or gardeners before 94 ......if you are going to say such, you need to back it by providing us with facts and stats.  Same thing that happened to the Zuma case...a Judge said there was political meddling by the Executive without proof.....

This could be a valid point, but has it been scientifically proved? If so can someone send me the stats.....

I'm starting a Soweto Tour trip for SOUTH AFRICANS......I will also make sure the trip passes at Gold Reef Casino at the Apartheid Museum.....I'm sure i'll be rich by end of the year......

ps: take the tour at your own risk....apparently i'm empty upstairs....i don't have my own brain......

Cande
14 Jan 2009 18:17

LMAO, i thought u had a PHD from overseas nje DR MJJ?? how can u not have a brain of your own??

mjj
14 Jan 2009 18:22

i went to a meeting and someone made it very clear that I can't come up with original ideas.....I guess my Ivy League Education did not help....Can i blame it on Bantu Education? Oooooops i forgot Bantu Education was the best education system for black people......

Cande
14 Jan 2009 18:24

LOL, eish Politics are everywhere.. @ work, in the country, on TVSA the whole world nje is POLITICS..

Best-Achiever
14 Jan 2009 18:30

Sweet My Baby ... Tjo you real know politics ...i would never have guessed  ... thanx for  edifying  us

Cande
14 Jan 2009 18:37

I take off my hat for you SMB

Toxic
14 Jan 2009 18:38

politics brought back MADENZA from the cobwebs!!!

Brown Shuga
14 Jan 2009 18:50

Hawu Sweety My Baby, kanti all those things you were asking me about SA politics o no tlo di ngola mo?

Brown Shuga
14 Jan 2009 18:53

<<<And Holomisa on the other side is also good and I believe he can make a great President.>>> Wow, Kaizer Chiefs match days would be public holidays!

Cande
14 Jan 2009 18:56

LMAO

mabhebheza
14 Jan 2009 19:00

Oh yini BS exposin SMB let her shine* cwebezela.... ....


*whispering* uyaxoka Shuga!!LOL

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 19:01

best achiever said...Tjo you real know politics ...i would never have guessed

LOL,  why would you never have guessed, sweetheart??? kante am i the clueless sounding type? What are you saying, einklek???

@ Cande
thanks girlie... am watching the news right now - fascinating country we live in, politics is even better than TV. nonstop drama - maybe that's why it fascinates me so much.....

@ madenza
yeah no, i had to just let it all out, then give it up to prayer.

@mjj
pay no attention to the haters, you seem like a guy with fresh, happening ideas...

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 19:03

ha ha ha, Shugs, you're so hilarious, ROFLMAO!!  hee! i didn't think you looked in on politics blogs, just entertainment and celebs...

i guess i'm BUSTED!!!!

Brown Shuga
14 Jan 2009 19:08

On a serious note...SMB, I'm so WOW! I didn't know half the stuff you spoke about! Thank you!

Ntando's also raised some interesting points though....fact or not. 

Cande
14 Jan 2009 19:09

i was watching the news and LoLing @ the mini strike the parents of the children who go to that school that got 0% matric pass rate in NW wew having, its funny.

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 19:12

@ shuga - funny enough, i do believe that ntando had a few valid points when it came to current affairs, lack of delivery with the ruling party etc....

he just lost me when he became an apartheid apologist. whatever crap we're going through now, it's factually incorrect to say that things were better pre-94. simply not true. statistically proven. finish and klaar.

tha - bang
14 Jan 2009 19:23

I'm really proud of tvsa , we are really a multidimensional site. i feel we should not make the same mistakes that the Jews and Israel in particular is making of not coming in terms of the past and building a way forward.

apartheid dehuminised us and yes its legacy still affects us today but it is up to us to create a better and humane south africa that we will hand down to our kids.
a south africa that believes in the quality of a mans character and which does not just see skin colour but also a south african beneath that skin.a south africa  that knows where it comes from but works hard not to repeat mistakes of the past.

we need to look beyond race and start thinking about how are we going to improve the life of all south africans. for as long as we are fixated on race we enhance the tool of apartheid that used race as a trump card to separate and to dehumanise people. lets not repeat the same errors.

as for the election, im voting for people who are pro the rainbow nation, we still remember that myth dont we? people who are willing to be accountable and not just all talk. people who are willing to put the nations interest before their own, a lot of parties claim to be doing this but its only up to the individual to judge for themselves who is speaking truethly and honesting to them.

we have enough corruption,violence and abuse in the country lets now build on the positive.vote to make a difference no matter what party you vote for.lets be tolerant and long live the spirit of debate and interesting discussions.and people say the young lions are sleeping, how wrong they are,sweet

Brown Shuga
14 Jan 2009 19:27

<<<<as for the election, im voting for people who are pro the rainbow nation, we still remember that myth dont we? people who are willing to be accountable and not just all talk. people who are willing to put the nations interest before their own.>>>> 
Who is this Tha-bang coz I would love to support them as well. (I'm sincere)

WhiteSockGirl
14 Jan 2009 19:39

@tha-bang: Yoh,...  I am now such a groupie of yours!!!!!  

<<<we need to look beyond race and start thinking about how are we going to improve the life of all south africans. for as long as we are fixated on race we enhance the tool of apartheid that used race as a trump card to separate and to dehumanise people. lets not repeat the same errors.>>

I am going to take that and use it as a screen saver,... of course replacing south africa with Namibia,...

You now have a fan,... just be warned, I stalk.

sweetie my baby
14 Jan 2009 19:55

indeed tha-bang...BUA!!!

how does that saying to 'those who have not learned from the mistakes of the past are condemned to repeat them"

and who needs a repetition of the hot-ass mess that was apartheid, right?

Best-Achiever
14 Jan 2009 21:37

LOL, why would you never have guessed, sweetheart??? kante am i the clueless sounding type? What are you saying, einklek???

@Sweety My Baby
tl tl tl tl  ..NOT AT ALL dear ...you ... clueless in one sentence, never. just that it never crossed my mind that you do take interest in politics.

WOW thabang ..that was so mouthful

mjj
14 Jan 2009 23:04

lets now build on the positive.vote to make a difference no matter what party you vote for.lets be tolerant......this is a very important issue you mention..........VOTE for whoever you think will make a difference......they'll me more than 20 political parties on the ballot paper.....

mjj
14 Jan 2009 23:13

Seeing that we are talking politics.....can you all join me on a fast on Friday 6am-6pm......Praying for Peace in Zim, Gaza, Israel....and for tolerance in South Africa.......The humanitarian situation in Zim is worse than we think.............

If you have clothes you don't use.....please give them to the Zim refugees staying at the Central Methodist Church in Johannesburg.......

Firstdvd
15 Jan 2009 03:25

tha-bang for president! Ur the best boet!

realist
15 Jan 2009 06:57

Ntando and SMB: You both make valid points but I tend to agree with Ntando the most. On the other hand SMB your points are based in history and you not coming with solutions for this continent to move forward. If you reasons are based on emotions they are not going to help move this country forward but backwards.

That’s why the history and the biblical lessons are no longer taught at school. The reason advanced by this government was that the people that learned those subjects in all probability tend to be under achievers.

Again they said that Maths is not at all that difficult therefore every learner should do maths till grade 12. Reason advanced was that the matric students stand a better chance of finding employment. Wonder how many students passed maths? Moral of the story, History is history and nothing will change it but we can learn from it.

I know I said I rest my case but had to respond on this one.

mjj
15 Jan 2009 07:33

Realist please point it out for me where did SMB say she she knew what was best for this country????......all she did was correct some notions.......

SMB your points are based in history and you not coming with solutions for this continent to move forward........Tjo, now she's suppose to come up with solutions?

That’s why the history and the biblical lessons are no longer taught at school. History is no longer in the school curriculum????????? As far as i know, its still there and it has been renamed.........

The reason advanced by this government was that the people that learned those subjects in all probability tend to be under achievers.....WOW.......is this TRUE????

History is history and nothing will change it but we can learn from it.....Clearly we have not learned anything from HISTORY.....if we did, there wouldn't be people speaking out of reference....

Have we learned from it ??????

What about the +/-10 million refugees that we're catering for? We transport food to their countries, feed them here in SA and they also take back food to their countries and you expect food to cost less? Cooking oil? What happens when the demand exceeds the supply?

During apartheid years not more than 1 million South Africans went to other african countries and now we suupose to embrace every african in SA because they are our brothers and have help us during the struggle.

Nigerians, they leave their women behind and pimp our women, Somalians have killed so many of their presidents.

Now i understand why innocent souls were killed last year in the Xenophobic attacks........Clearly HISTORY IS HISTORY RIGHT???????

Let me say it again......IGNORANCE IS ANOTHER FORM OF DEVIL........

Nkosi this is sad, very sad..........Naledi Pandor should make it compulsory for every learner to be taught about South African History, my goodness what kind of society are we buiding if those that are suppose to reason & be knowledgable are failing to understand the basic principles of being a diadvantaged human being????????

Brown Shuga
15 Jan 2009 07:43

Eish guys...

Cande
15 Jan 2009 07:45

Naledi Pandor should make it compulsory for every learner to be taught about South African History
I wouldn't want my child to study history, it wont take them anywhere mos.There is books, Museums e.t.c that they can get history from..I never did history in my life and know from extra reading i did for myself.

realist
15 Jan 2009 07:51

Exactly what is your point MJJ. I am lost.

Cande
15 Jan 2009 07:56

LOL

realist
15 Jan 2009 08:02

I wouldn't want my child to study history, it wont take them anywhere mos.There is books, Museums e.t.c
Same here, they will learn it from me and that is the bottom line. Why must they under achieve?

NtandoN
15 Jan 2009 08:31

Sorry I am not gonna fast for the Zimbabweans because they are suffering today because of their lack of intelligence, ability to make decisions and loyalty to a so-called freedom fighter who turned against them.

Most blacks are emotional and defensive when one points the incompetence of the ANC government compared to NP government I guess its inferiority complexity

There's a stigma attached to the IFP emanating from the fact that it is a party of amaZulu and everything that has to do with amaZulu is seen as barbaric, correct me if I'm wrong.

If the whites are the cause of our problems in SA then let's chase them away like Mugabe did. It's funny that we do not view Helen Suzzman, George Bizos, Judge Nicholson as whites. In fact all of you love the latter with passion, is he black?

lepogo
15 Jan 2009 08:35

I applaud Ntando for standing up to his views and opinions.

An apartheid apologist would be someone who excuses and deny existence of Apartheid-however NO ONE can say it had no benefits-same as the ANC rule-it has its very bad points,and its very good points.

Just that its embarassing that we excuse rude and arrogant talk for opinions and facts.Facts are that the only homeland that prospered was Bophutatswana cos Mangope worked for his people-not much can be said about the Kei River Homelands,where typical Xhosas were constantly fighting for power.

But this is not about history-nor it is about race-its about delivery.Its not about Zulus happy that their time has come,or Xhosas angry that their time has passed.Its about a nation-something that I have realised that these 2 nations dont believe in the same way all of us do.

So I wont vote Zuma,or COPE,I will vote for anyone who can make sure my son will grow to be 18 safely,and that I wont all the time worry about basic human rights being abused.

lepogo
15 Jan 2009 08:43

@Ntando,

I will defend IFP on this one-but it has got nothing with being Zulu.IFP is the brainchild of the ANC-OR and the rest of the leadership in exile and in Robben Island.Just that,typical of the ANC hegemony-no one thought Gatsha would do a good job.For the first few years he did a great job,better than the ANC underground-and thats where it all went wrong.Details are too big for a blog-but Boipatong,Kathlehong etc was the IFP fighting his own parent,after he was sold to the NP by ANC turned Apartheid spies.

In short,IFP was COPE of the day,just that the history is more dramatic and hushed up.Which is what the ANC has been doing ever since they assumed power-they tell us and want us to believe they are the only movement that fought Apartheid.

It is very very interesting to go through countless material of what happened in exile-how the ANC,instead of fighting along PAC,told the NP gov. where their safe houses where in Lesotho and Botswana-how the stopped funding of the PAC and the other BC movements by spreading malicious rumours overseas.

 

NtandoN
15 Jan 2009 09:05

I will defend IFP on this one-but it has got nothing with being Zulu.IFP is the brainchild of the ANC-OR and the rest of the leadership in exile and in Robben Island.Just that,typical of the ANC hegemony-no one thought Gatsha would do a good job.For the first few years he did a great job,better than the ANC underground-and thats where it all went wrong.Details are too big for a blog-but Boipatong,Kathlehong etc was the IFP fighting his own parent,after he was sold to the NP by ANC turned Apartheid spies

I am glad I'm not the only one who knows the other side of the story, ANC supporters are quick to refer to history or say people have been brainwashed, the history they talking about had been written by them feeding people the wrong information.

If you gonna write history be objective e.g blood river war, Shaka wars have been written by whites and it is undisputable.

Both ANC and IFP has fought against apartheid, people from both parties has lost families, brothers and fathers. Is it now fair to justify the death of IFP members killed by ANC because the former were colluding with NP?

tha - bang
15 Jan 2009 09:22

I find it rather odd that we are still caught up in revisioning history ,i guess you will never know where ur going if you dont know where u come from?

but amongst all this revisionism is a mini crises in our hands that i believe we are all dancing around it; its time we ask ourselves really hard questions about the status quo and if we are going to let it continue or not? 

If one is saying they belief in soething is it purely just an emotional respond or is the substance, logic and insight behind that or just rhetoric and blind faith?

as for the IFP i am not about the turn its leader into a saint, but Lepogo is right on one thing the struggle was really dirty at times one just needs to read books like Son of this soil, this traitors heart and the bang bang club to get how messy and grey things were.But in respective of all that ,it got us here and now lets focus on fixing the present and bettering a future for our kids.

when we all cast or chosse not to cast our votes in the next election , that decision affects all of us, not just u, so lets be smart about our decisions and not just based it on emotions alone.

NtandoN
15 Jan 2009 09:44

True Tha-bang but my problem is that in Africa when it comes to voting decisions are made based on what has happened in the past not on who can do good for the country.

You still find people saying they'll never vote for DA even though Helen Zille make sense. They would rather watch SA being destroyed by Blacks instead of voting them out.

This is happening all over Africa, all the countries have gained independence now but it's painful to see how blacks are treating each other worse than what the whites did. I sometimes do understand why the whites did what they did, we are black they are white.

But what motive does a black person has to ill treat another black? Is it not surprising to find black people still supporting Mugabe, him blaming the interference of Bush and Brown while they are also feeding his starving people.

realist
15 Jan 2009 09:45

Africa is good when it comes to history and useless when it come to engineering. Until Africa change this mentality of preaching past mistakes to justify their incompetence it isn’t going to help. Whether you like it or not, Africa is 100 years and I mean 100 years behind in everything that is technologically advanced with the exception of witchcraft, which there is no competition with the outside world.

Thabang isn’t it what is causing this continent to be so behind in everything? Learning history.

NtandoN
15 Jan 2009 10:02

Shukran everyone, I am just a nobody, a spectator, not ANC or IFP or DA or COPE which put me in the better position to be objective and logical when making decisions instead of being emotional.

Lets put the past behind and vote for whatever party that will do well for SA irrespective of colour, if it wasn't too late I was going to register TVSA political party.

Once again shukran.

Cody
15 Jan 2009 10:07

technologically advanced with the exception of witchcraft, which there is no competition with the outside world. 

LOL

sweetie my baby
15 Jan 2009 10:39

realist said...
SMB your points are based in history and you not coming with solutions for this continent to move forward.

errr - i was never trying to come up with solutions, lavo - my point was to address points being made about our history that i felt were misinformed and outright wrong. 

in terms of peoples comments on the usefuleness (or lack thereof) of knowledge of ones own history - i guess that's our point of departure. i don't believe that we can go forward unless we understand where we come from.  especially because apartheid still defines so much about SA society.

in now way does this excuse the ish that the ANC has been up to, i am as gatvol as the next person, about how much waste there's been these past 15 years... the ruling party has a lot to answer for, that is for sure.

it's just odd to me that people seem to think that if you have any interest in our history, it means that you don't want to go forward.... i don't follow this logic, and honestly - i think it's dangerous. 

anyway - where this blog is concerned, i'm out, i think that i've spoken MORE than enough, and have enjoyed the vigorous debate. dankie....

unless someone says something ESPECIALLY crazy, (by my standards, anyway)  heh heh heh, i am checking out....sharpo!

happy thursday, beautiful bloggers!

tha - bang
15 Jan 2009 10:40

technologically advanced with the exception of witchcraft, which there is no competition with the outside world. 
lol but i love history realist lol anyways lets get those engineers ,dr's and all.we have alot of catching up to do in other fields.

oh NtandoN i do concure with u we need to get over race but i also believe that the political parties need to do more to rehabilitate their image and constituency.Which i believe the DA is trying to do now with the new logo and all but only time will tell if its paper change or real change.But im pro multiracialism and people should vote for whoever they feel represent their worldviews and aspirations irrespective of race.sweet

lepogo
15 Jan 2009 10:48

Its granted that the ANC will win the next elections-and,just like all other African countries,they will pretend to work and uproot corruption-and for a while we'll be fooled again.

The answer does not lie in COPE,nor in DA-it lies in the civil society,yep you and me-the bastards who are always complaining about anything and everything,yet sit on their asses contributing nothing to the country except their taxes.

The greater good will be achieved the day Tha-bang will run  Production workshops in the townships,or I go run workshops on the importance of money and how to save and use it wiser-

Until that day comes-the day when the civil society empowers itself,when Ntando wont be my enemy,rather a partner in bettering the lives of fellow people,until then "all talk,all criticism,all complaints will be nothing but usual hot air blown by the bloated middle class."

Toodecent
15 Jan 2009 10:52

Yazi talking politics reminds me of yesterday....Some fool yesterday decided to come with ANC pamphlets to where were are playing soccer infront of my complex.He then says he wants to use the space for driving and we like pis off...just because he was wearing an ANC T Shirt together with his 7 man team he tells us yena he is authority and will use the damn space and there he went on making stupuid phone calls thinking they would threaten us until they got *bleep!* bored and left.Tjeer what an arrogant retard thinking his BEE will intimidate everyone .mxnm.

Toodecent
15 Jan 2009 10:54

Lepogo happy New year dude...its always refreshing to read your thoughts on the politics side.

goldii
15 Jan 2009 10:57

tha - bang
I find it rather odd that we are still caught up in revisioning history ,i guess you will never know where ur going if you dont know where u come from? 

realist
Until Africa change this mentality of preaching past mistakes to justify their incompetence it isn’t going to help.

In my opinion what we as citizens of SA need to do is to take it upon ourselves to look beyond the propaganda and cheap PR stunts pulled by the ANC as they try to whitewash/change the atrocities of apartheid and what they were responsible for.

Who can forget their " Liberation before education" slogan. But then again there is amnesia when it comes to accountabilty and exploiting peoples emotions to get votes.

My wish is that regardless which way people vote , I hope they use their logic and common sense , look at the current picture and ask themselves what type of legacy do we want to leave behind for our children, grandchildren as well as future generations

The one thing I know is that I want my children to grow up in a safe, secure enviroment where there will be able to get a good education that will allow them to contribute to the growth of this country. Were hard work is promoted and self-entitlement is frowned upon ( it is possible you only have to look at world around you)

For the first time in my life I am going to vote this year

realist
15 Jan 2009 10:59

errr - i was never trying to come up with solutions, lavo - my point was to address points being made about our history that i felt were misinformed and outright wrong.
I get it now. Point taken.
in now way does this excuse the ish that the ANC has been up to, i am as gatvol as the next person, about how much waste there's been these past 15 years... the ruling party has a lot to answer for, that is for sure.
That settles it then.
it's just odd to me that people seem to think that if you have any interest in our history, it means that you don't want to go forward.... i don't follow this logic, and honestly - i think it's dangerous.
If that is the case then I was mistaken.
unless someone says something ESPECIALLY crazy, (by my standards, anyway) heh heh heh, i am checking out....sharpo!
Which is... In case I need to up mine.

realist
15 Jan 2009 11:02

@goldii 
Could not have said it better myself. Take five you have earned it.

tha - bang
15 Jan 2009 11:06

lepogo ur defineatly right true change will come from civil society .we each need to play an active role in improving our fellowman and henceforth our countries fortune.yet i still believe in the power of the ballot, i believe last year should the dangers of a 2/3 majority and not to curtail that power in my books it would be a grevious mistake.total power = total impunity and that has been abused in my eyes therefore that for me needs to change.
but i do agree with you ,true change comes when each of us has an impact on our different communities

tha - bang
15 Jan 2009 11:14

im with you goldii ,pass on the message

realist
15 Jan 2009 11:15

The greater good will be achieved the day Tha-bang will run Production workshops in the townships,or I go run workshops on the importance of money and how to save and use it wiser
I tried to enlighten the guys I drink out with on how to make easy money. I explained the way to do it and they were all for it. I said let us but Satrix unit trust with money that we contribute every month. They all agreed until I told them where the catch is. They all bailed out and it was left to me to shrug it out.

They decided to put their money in the bank. I have a bet with them that in three years time let’s see who will be smiling. Come 2010 will see.

DJ Why why
20 Jan 2009 05:36

Helen Zille always knows what she's talking about but the fact that she's white and that ANC has a sentimental value to the blacks will make it impossible for DA to win the elections.

In the Western Cape, DA is doing quiet well. Hellen as a person is doing quite well, her City of Cape Town employees ( the ones are dealt with) are on par. I was so impressed with their Health department on admin support to local companies. Far cry from Pronvincial Government.... From what i have seen.....she is iskhokho sami as woman in SA. She even joked bout the Godzilla name....maare shame she pushes their slogan se- the city works for you.....

lepogo
03 Dec 2013 10:35

A new election season is upon us...damn this is soooo long time ago....


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