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Get Back to Work, Govpets

Written by makisto from the blog Frankly Speaking on 07 Sep 2010
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So the strike that crippled the country is over, for now that is! During the strike, the Zuma administration came under fire with analysts saying the strike is crippling the relationship the ruling party has with trade unions.

Using SABC WC slogan to send the message
The country lost approximately R1 billion each and everyday the strike continued. Money aside as it cannot buy lives. About seven innocent lives of patients who wanted medical treatment from hospitals died, all because public servants wanted money. It is a given that life should come before money but that wasn't the case during mass action this year. A lady gave birth in a car at a hospital somewhere in KZN but after being attended by doctors, she was declared fine and so was her little baby. Striking hospital workers attacked those who volunteered their services to saving lives.

In my opinion, public health care wasn't supposed to go on strike and shouldn't be allowed to strike, just as the police, the Defence Force and Correctional Services aren't allowed to strike. These are essential services without which, any country cannot function without.

We want more
On the other hand, you have public servants who are truly committed to their jobs and only demand what they deserve. I firmly believe that workers must be paid what they are worth. During this political biceps workout, trade unions showed the government what they are capable of and even displayed attributes of influencing their members' decision with regards to the strike and accepting the offer put on the table or not.

Ministers, director generals (DGs) and deputy director generals (DDGs) came under fire as Cosatu general secretary, Zwelinzima Vavi revealed that Minister earn R150 000 per month and DGs earn about R100 000 per month. Meanwhile, you have some qualified and lowest paid nurses who earns R150 000 per annum. I personally believe it is workers at the coal-face of service delivery such as the police, teachers, nurses, doctors, prison warders etc etc, that must be remunarated at last R8 000 after deductions, depending on qualifications and experience. The government has developed what it calls career pathing and Occupation Specific Dispensation (OSD). But that has, so far, showed no noticeable change and that can only be found in the spirit of unhappy employees. In this article, I shall not discuss lazy teachers, rude nurses and corrupt prison warders as that is a topic for another day. The government is failing dismally to implement the OSD which is directly linked to career pathing. Career pathing and OSD make it clear that, i.e a prison warder of a particular experience should be remunarated in a particular way that does justice to the years he dedicated looking after and rehabilitating hardened criminals. It is on this basis that I think the rioting public servants had a legimate concern but turning the sick away from clinics and hospitals is just simply not on.

Left in the lurch
The striking public servants were demanding an 8.5% salary increase backdated to 1 April 2010 and a R1 000 housing allowance. Initially, the government was offering only 6.5 percent and R600 housing allowance. A dispute was declared at the CCMA and the two parties entered into a dispute and workers took to the streets. It was only until recently that the employer was prepared to give a salary increase of 7.5% and an R800 housing allowance but workers didn't return to work immediately. It was only on the morning of 7 September that they returned to work.

As it is the case with any strike, it is no work no pay and employees' cars, houses and their Truworths and Bears accounts will be in arrears and this will reflect on their ITC. 

Demands very clear
The govrenment argues that it just simply cannot afford the 8.5% salary increase and the R1 000 housing allowance. In order for it to afford it, the government will have to stop building schools, hospitals and clinics, airports and also not pay attention to the potholes on our roads, amongst other thing.

I argue that, that argument is just simply pathetic and perhaps not even valid. Why, you ask! Firstly, the Correctional Services built a new prison in Kimberly, which is good because our prisions are severely overcrowded. The Department of Correctional Services spent over R30 million rand buying new LCD TV sets with full HD for the prison. A luxury that not even public servants who wake up @ 4:00 am and return home after 18:00 can afford. Top cop Bheki Cele is spending an unnecessary R500 million on a new building. Ministers are driving expensive cars worth over a million each with accessories that cost the price of your car. And, you and I are footing the bill.

Taking a dig at the Minister

Jacob Zuma's wives are travelling for free in SAA's business class and are receiving a whole lot of other benefits at the expense of the tax payer, hence Sonono Khoza seethes when she hears JZ will only marry her in 2012. All that she wants is for us to pay her bills. Yet the government says it doesn't have money to pay its workers.

Nurses and doctors, teachers and many others, are today back at work despite not being given what they demand. But JZ administration shouldn't celebrate yet, as the strike may resume in 21 days time.

I want my money

The government must bridge the malicious gap in salaries between the fat cats and workers at the coal-face of service delivery. If Cosatu insists on this, it may just win because it has got support of the majority.

I acknowledge that Minister must fairly be remunarated but that shouldn't be done at the expense of other workers. Hang on, do Ministers work? What is their work. To be honest, the only things I know Minister do are to:
1. Engage in corruption
2. Fight corruption
3. Attend Imbizos
4. Hang out in Parliament debating with the DA
5. Attending African and International Conferences that after that, I as an ordinary man on the street don't see any change
6. Fire DGs who don't agree with them
7. Attend ANC conferences etc etc

The government must sit down with trade unions and come up with plans that will bridge the divide between greedy fat cats and poor public servants. 

JZ, are we clear?

Pictures courtesy of News24.com



127 Comments

Mathaz
07 Sep 2010 14:42

The trade unions have sold public servants out, why suspend the strike?  The public servants are so lowly paid, it's not even funny, the 7.5 that the govt. is proposing goes to pension, medical aid and it's before tax.  So all in all they are bound to take home less than R500.  It's sad that essential servies had to be disrupted but i differ with you when you say that the nurses just as the police should not strike.  The police, not all od them of course should be able at some point to strike coz if there's no one offering those services then the govt. will be forced to listen to the demand of the workers.  The gab between a general worker and a Chief Director is so huge and unfair.  This Cosatu alliance thing with the ANC is not working coz they speak the same language and we all know it's about 2012 positions.  Zuma promised that when he takes the reigns he will ensure that public servants are paid well but all i see is his nephews and children getting richer by the day

makisto
07 Sep 2010 14:53

Zuma promised that when he takes the reigns he will ensure that public servants are paid well but all i see is his nephews and children getting richer by the day
That's true, Hellen Zille once said if people vote for the ANC, they shouldn't complain because they get what they deserve.
So all in all they are bound to take home less than R500.
That's whjy I argue that their offer is somewhat pathetic and real money must be given to these workers because they work really hard.
The police, not all od them of course should be able at some point to strike coz if there's no one offering those services then the govt.
If the government couldn't listen when people died and people not able to bury the dead and not getting medication, why would they listen. It's like Capitec's advert, they just simply don't care.
The gab between a general worker and a Chief Director is so huge and unfair.
Whic must be bridged urgently because all directors do is attend meetings while others run around seeing that all is well.
The police, nurses shouldn't atrike. Now peole died. Next time th epolice are on strike, criminals will attack you in your home knowing the police will not come to your rescue. We have some really great police committed to their profession.

titidi
07 Sep 2010 15:00


Jacob Zuma's wives are travelling for free in SAA's business class and are receiving a whole lot of other benefits at the expense of the tax payer, hence Sonono Khoza seethes when she hears JZ will only marry her in 2012. All that she wants is for us to pay her bills. Yet the government says it doesn't have money to pay its workers

I really hate what is Zuma is doing to his people. How dare he use tax payers for his personal needs. Fine they said we mustn't involves ourselves in his personal life but "akasicingeli shame", he is selfish, his pappiness and needs come first than pepole who voted for them.

This thing of having two unoins is a bull sh***t, one union is with the management and the other one will act as if they fight for worker's rights. 

 

Mathaz
07 Sep 2010 15:14

To be fair and factual, it was only a minority of nurses who went on strike.  The hospital's general workers those would be your laundry clerks, food service, admin clerks were mostly the ones who were on strike.  The nurses have to abide by the code of conduct which they sign when they gradguate.  I still say that they should also strike coz they will also benefit mos.

I was miffed when i read an article on City Press (my favourite paper) some two weeks back about Zuma's wives and his children's benefits.  Tjo jah...we have an expensive president or rather our president is costing us too much hence there is this uprising against him.

Zah000
07 Sep 2010 15:18

The unions really sold public servants out. The truth is after medical aid, pension, etc. all people take home inhlamba yodwa! The truth is ministers and all those top dogs in guavament rake in huge bucks for ukukhomba here and there while lower levels slave away doing the actual work for a much less pay

Now will this gap ever be filled?? I don't think so. It's just sad

makisto
07 Sep 2010 15:19

it was only a minority of nurses who went on strike.The hospital's general workers those would be your laundry clerks, food service, admin clerks were mostly the ones who were on strike. 
Hospitals and clinics were without nurses Mathaz, I am not sure if you are taking about the public health care here. Some hospitals and clinics had to be shut down as far I have seen in my community

makisto
07 Sep 2010 15:21

The truth is ministers and all those top dogs in guavament rake in huge bucks for ukukhomba here and there while lower levels slave away doing the actual work for a much less pay
True Zah00, hence I say the only thing I know ministers do is attend Imbizos and hang out in parliament

GML
07 Sep 2010 15:24

The truth is after medical aid, pension, etc. all people take home inhlamba yodwa!

Atleast they have medical aid and pension. There are people who dont have these benefits

Ngwanab
07 Sep 2010 15:26

@Mathaz i work for Union and im a former teacher. The Union did not sold the public servant out. the reason ke gore the strike was not supposed to last more than 21 days according to the PSCBC law.

now all unions are back with negotiations for a new offer that was placed by employer. This time around if the union doesn’t agree with the offer the employer can go back to the last offer before 7,5 and unions are fighting for no work no pay to be erase. So much its happen i think i will take long and too much space to educate u on how the law works in SA.

makisto
07 Sep 2010 15:26

Lol @GML but true nontheless

FK
07 Sep 2010 15:35

Hospitals and clinics were without nurses Mathaz, I am not sure if you are taking about the public health care here. Some hospitals and clinics had to be shut down as far I have seen in my community

@makisto
- true, their lives were threatened by the laundry workers,  clerks, food service, cleaners etc etc.  Most of them wanted to work.

I want to believe that the government has money, they just need to prioritise their spending.  Imagine if all teachers can quit their jobs, who is going to teach our children???  I rather drive through a pothole than leave a life without education.

In terms of the new over, I dont think that the unions have sold the the public servants out.  Remember during negotiations, you win some and lose some.  So in their case, they have made other demands that go with that 7.5% and R800.  Basically, they are happy to take the offer on the table with the condition that by 2012, all employees will have a Home Owner what what and other stuff they mentioned, forgot what.  So basically, if the employer does not agree to the other demands, then they will go back on stricking.

FK
07 Sep 2010 15:35

In terms of the new OFFER.

Zah000
07 Sep 2010 15:36

lol GML

makisto
07 Sep 2010 15:40

@FK I think you are raising a crucial example that we should rather drive over potholes than have children not going to school. That's a good point FK, I like it. It's true that you win some and you lose some. Surely the offer isn't at all bad.

realist
07 Sep 2010 15:45

The reason the nurses were forced to go on a strike is because the regime refuses to sign the essential services agreement. The regime wants 80% essential and 20% non essential and the union wants vice versa. 

Last time I checked the members are the unions and not elected leaders therefore the leaders sold out to the union members regardless of the law. 

The 21 days cooling period is for the regime to back down on the no work no pay rule. If the regime agrees to that then the 7.5% and R800 allowance will be accepted provided that the equalization of the medical aid will be implemented by 2011. 

The other point was to show the leadership of the ANC and the regime who is the boss.

Mathaz
07 Sep 2010 15:46

Thanks Ngwanab for the insight...but in 2007 when the strike was more than 21 days, what was so different from this one?

GML
07 Sep 2010 15:47

I understand both sides of this strike.

Public servants especially nurses have got to handle a lot of patients at a time and they do work under stressful environments. But in all fairness, do the nurses deserve pay hike? I dont know, what i do know is that nurses are rude, irritable and very impatient towards their patients. At the same time their working environment is such that it puts enormous pressure on them and most people a very irritable and snappy when stressed. However, it is no excuse for the way they treat their patients

Same applies to all public servants. If you go to a certain department, the long queues with people who look like they are tired sitting behind those counters and not giving you proper information is enough to get any person to say they dont deserve that increase. If their demands are met certain performance measures should be put in place to determine whether certain increases are deserved or not.

Teachers could stay home and not teach for a whole month but still strike and demand an increase. Is it fair?

FK
07 Sep 2010 15:55

@GML - dont you think that the reason we are having such behavour from them is the fact that they are demotivated?  We need to look at the cause and not treat the symptoms.  The cause might be that with the little salary they are getting, they are unable to meet the financial obligations, they work their arses off and this is what they get.  Does this saying ring a bell ' Pay peanuts and you get monkeys" 

But that does not mean 100% are demotivated.  There are some if not a lot that are just useless.  But unfortunately, it becomes a process.  Give me all the resources required to do my job i.e. decent salary, tools, education / training and I will do my job.  Now if after all this has been given to me and I still dont deliver, then FIRE ME.

makisto
07 Sep 2010 15:56

But in all fairness, do the nurses deserve pay hike? I dont know, what i do know is that nurses are rude, irritable and very impatient towards their patients. At the same time their working environment is such that it puts enormous pressure on them and most people a very irritable and snappy when stressed. 
Valid point GML, is it possible that we can leave this topic for another day and focus on what workers deserve.
If their demands are met certain performance measures should be put in place to determine whether certain increases are deserved or not.
I fully agree
Teachers could stay home and not teach for a whole month but still strike and demand an increase. Is it fair?
Still, this is a topic on its own and it's fraction that's doing this. Teachers do really deserve pay increase.
The other point was to show the leadership of the ANC and the regime who is the boss.
True Realist, this was just a political muscle exercise, to an extent.

MaWiNiZa
07 Sep 2010 16:05

asikhulumeni kahle Comrades..its not all nurses that are rude towards patients..some are really sweet and angelic, and they give better service than most private hospital nurses.

GML
07 Sep 2010 16:12

dont you think that the reason we are having such behavour from them is the fact that they are demotivated? We need to look at the cause and not treat the symptoms

FK: Read my statement again. I do acknowledge the fact that they work in highly stressful conditions. Their working environment is not a nice one work in. See below

 "At the same time their working environment is such that it puts enormous pressure on them and most people a very irritable and snappy when stressed"

Valid point GML, is it possible that we can leave this topic for another day and focus on what workers deserve.
What do they deserve and who determines this? Surely, performance and results should determine this. Annual increases should be in place, but what they demand and what they deserve are highly subjective Makisto

FK
07 Sep 2010 16:13

True MaWiNiZa.  I have experienced that. 

GML
07 Sep 2010 16:14

asikhulumeni kahle Comrades..its not all nurses that are rude towards patients..some are really sweet and angelic, and they give better service than most private hospital nurses.

Agreed!!!

FK
07 Sep 2010 16:17

@GML - cool.  I read it the first time. lol  Just responded to the whole paragraph and not disputing anything you are saying.  All I am saying is we need to treat the cause.

makisto
07 Sep 2010 16:20

It's true that we need to treat the course. You cannot build a hostpital near a high accident zone so people will get medical attention asap. Rather deal with what causes the accident and enlarge the road by having Four lanes  on the left and four lanes on the right if found that the accidents is due to road size.

Miragirl
07 Sep 2010 16:40

Nna i think its good when the unions agreed to suspend the strike for time being.atleast batho ba tla kereya medical attention.as for government they should solve this problem once and for all re kwele ka strike we are enough.

Mafresh
07 Sep 2010 17:23

hmmm, maar I just dont agree with poeple knowing and practising their rights, BTW they don't know their responsibilities. I was so embarassed by bo-mistrese 
jumping fences

poshspice
07 Sep 2010 21:18


Mina I want to know: the problems of teachers, nurses, police being underpaid, poor working conditions and lack of necessary tools to perfom their duties have been there since the ANC government came into power. What has government been doing all these years, is there a strategy to address the problems, how far is the implementation of that strategy if it exists, can they give status report. The least government can do now is to tell teachers,nurses & police that moving forward how is it planning to resolve their issues and what are the timeframes..short and long term holistic plan that will include how performance will be measured

poshspice
07 Sep 2010 21:31

To improve service delivery in government there is a need of a complete overhaul of the public service and change of the culture of the institution.Tjo the attitude is bad! I doubt even good salaries would change the attitude. can money change one's attitude?

For me, how public servants behave reflect the culture of our community. It is our sisters, aunts, mothers, brothers, cousins and neighbors who work in hospitals and are teachers. It is us blacks treating other black people with hostility and provide bad service to each other. If any change would prevail, it will start at family and community level. 

FK
07 Sep 2010 21:38

@posh - are you watching 3rd Degree?

pele
08 Sep 2010 08:22

Ngwanab can i suggest another tactic to grab the governments attention when you need increases, please dont strike after the 21days you promised, let the gov cruise on on it's ship for now and hit them hard when they need you the most, in the election time. 
I think we all know all political parties are gunning up for the municipal polls next year, so please public servants dont strike now, go back to work, treat the patients, teach our kids etc wait and strike in the election era, and you know as well as i know, ANC govt will give anyone anything they want to win the polls.

If the Unions can back down for now, and two days before the polls call out to their members not to vote until they are given their demands, we all know the govt will give you 10%more of what you demand now, the issue here is the timing of your strikes, just please, i repeat , let this year pass, hit the gov when they least expect you to, Ngwanab that's the offer i am putting in your table!!

They take advantage of the poor in election time, so it's time for you to give them the taste of their own medicine.

makisto
08 Sep 2010 08:25

Tjo FK, I did watch 3rd Degree
some part of Debora Patta's script read like this blog. But anyway, I have no. 

how far is the implementation of that strategy if it exists, can they give status report. 
Every government department does have a strategy in place for its challenges and very good strategies. They are not able to implement them because they are just simply incompetent. They are good in writing them down and not in implementation. The problem for this is that they don't consult with people at the coal-face of service delivery who need to implement the strategies. Look at how the OBE dismally failed. There was consulation with the teachers, none whatsoever.
To improve service delivery in government there is a need of a complete overhaul of the public service and change of the culture of the institution.
Very true and some ANC cadres must be removed from key and strategic positions so competent people can come in and do a great job.

realist
08 Sep 2010 08:31

Pele, They will get a 2 digit increase precisely of the points you are raising. The year after that we are back to square one.

This regime needs a wakeup call, as long as they get over 60% during the election there will never be service delivery.

makisto
08 Sep 2010 08:40

Pele and Realist, I don't think trade unions will allow their affiliates to go on strike. Remember this unions have are in a relationship with the ANC and doing what Pele suggests is great idea and I agree with it, but the unions will not want to sabbotage the ANC. You will remember that these union leaders mostly have been promised plum jobs in the government, i.e JZ created a department for Blade Nzimande all in the name of speeing up service delivery. Gwede Mantashe is from NUM and now he is the General Secretary of the ANC. JZ will go to DA led province and municipalities like he did a few weeks ago and bad mouth the DA forgetting that his government is even far much worse. At the end of the day, public servants are being used as pawns between the ruling party and trade unions as I state in the article that the strike was a political muscle exercise.

realist
08 Sep 2010 08:44

Every government department does have a strategy in place for its challenges
Makisto, you now sound like this government. Everything is a challenge instead of being a problem and there is a big difference between the two. 

Here is the difference:
Challenge: something you don’t know the results of, you either win or lose a challenge. 

Problem: Something you can solve and this damn government does not have a clue on how to solve a problem since they took power hence everything is a challenge to them because they don’t know the outcome of a challenge.

pele
08 Sep 2010 08:48

i know Realist, but for us to spare our poor citizens of dying in these strike times, i think the unions must measure up the time the govt needs them the most and not punish the people but the Gov who is the culprit of these grievances.

This regime needs a wakeup call, as long as they get over 60% during the election there will never be service delivery..

Ordinary citizens are the ones who need a wakre up call, this shaking hands with the Pres or his partners wont give them service delivery.
did you see how people accomodate the visits of the Pres as usual before elections, did you see abantu base Mpumalanga, who were the first to barricade roads ths year, they way they were so happy to get a handshakes form JZ, promising the same thing over again.  


5. Attending African and International Conferences that after that, I as an ordinary man on the street doesn't see any change..
i fully concur with this statement, if they can go and get tips on how these other countries treat their civil servants like nurses, police etc 


makisto
08 Sep 2010 08:50

Makisto, you now sound like this government. Everything is a challenge instead of being a problem and there is a big difference between the two.
Lol @Realist. But yeah, it's true, there is a difference between the two. I just didn't have the correct word but I agree with you nonetheless that the problems the public has the government can solve.

pele
08 Sep 2010 08:54

then Makisto if the union leaders cant go against theri firends, tehy must stop acting as if they care for their union members. They punish ordianry citizens intead of tehir friends which is the Govt, so sick of power hungry leaders who alwys act innocent when it sutis them.

realist
08 Sep 2010 08:54

Ordinary citizens are the ones who need a wakre up call, this shaking hands with the Pres or his partners wont give them service delivery.
True what you are saying and it drives me nuts every time I see that happens.

CNAZO A.K.A NAUGHTYGAL
08 Sep 2010 09:14

mna ndivela ama grade 12 shame,gov shuld give the raise to the teachers

Vesa
08 Sep 2010 09:18

Every government department does have a strategy in place for its challenges and very good strategies. They are not able to implement them because they are just simply incompetent. They are good in writing them down and not in implementation.

@Makisto, you know why their strategies are soo good......they get consultants to come and help with these.

And with regards to their salaries, they got their salaries in full this month.....and the 'no work part' gets deducted over a period.

One and Only
08 Sep 2010 09:20

I personally think that these workers deserve the treatment they are getting from the UNIONS & the ANC if not worse. Come election time, the same workers are gonna vote for the very same ANC who's showing them a middle finger now.

1st of all, the UNIONS are not like employment agencies, they never found anyone work. In this lifetime there was not even one case where the UNIONS had demanded 5% and got 5% which makes them failures. Once again come month-end UNION members are still gonna pay the membership fees like it or not.

I get irritated when people demand a minimum living wage because according to my understanding it differs with every individual. For Patrice Motsepe it may be R1m a month whereas it is R10 000 for Kathlego Mphela.




Vesa
08 Sep 2010 09:26

Pele and Realist, I don't think trade unions will allow their affiliates to go on strike. Remember this unions have are in a relationship with the ANC and doing what Pele suggests is great idea and I agree with it, but the unions will not want to sabbotage the ANC.

@Makisto, recently Vavi has been saying "he will not help elect corrupt leaders into the gov" (his exact words). So this would be a perfect opportunity for him to do that  

pele
08 Sep 2010 09:34

1st of all, the UNIONS are not like employment agencies, they never found anyone work. In this lifetime there was not even one case where the UNIONS had demanded 5% and got 5% which makes them failures. Once again come month-end UNION members are still gonna pay the membership fees like it or not. 

Unions are not really that bad, they only fail their members when they are face to face with the govt about salries issue. Without unions many wwoerkers care being taken for a ride by companies, they work for. Having a union on your side means you have a lawyer you cant afford, hence members pay evry end of the month no matter what.


I get irritated when people demand a minimum living wage because according to my understanding it differs with every individual

to be honst me too, our pople will get paid R12000 per moth after deductions they will still toyi-toyi as they alwys over comiit themselves with debts, and but unncessary materials without investing for the future, it is a bit tricky to give someone a minumum wage , as we really cant know each and everyone's minimum expenditure, but at least they must be given  a salary that can be equal to their hard work, for instance, paying a nurse R4.500 after deductions is suicide, pay them at least R8000 and then we can start deabting what is the minimum wage.

Ms. Jay
08 Sep 2010 09:53

interesting read - loving the debate guys......

pele
08 Sep 2010 09:55

OFF TOPIC

Media24 is offering internships to Journalism graduates, up to 30yrs of age, maybe you have seen the ad in most  media 24newspapers or magazines, for please log on to media24 website for more details. Closing date 30 Sept..Good luck!!

makisto
08 Sep 2010 10:08

Thank you Pele, hopefully those who are media graduates will apply. 
@Makisto, recently Vavi has been saying "he will not help elect corrupt leaders into the gov" (his exact words). So this would be a perfect opportunity for him to do that 
But Vesa, he only said corrupt leaders. Wasn't he the one who said "We will kill for Zuma" whereas it doesn't take an economist to see and realise the man is allegedly corrupt. He is only buying faces of the working class.
you know why their strategies are soo good......they get consultants to come and help with these.
That's true, hence there is (partly) no money to pay public servants. Then my questions is, why hire incompetent people who can't develop a simple strategy.
Having a union on your side means you have a lawyer you cant afford, hence members pay evry end of the month no matter what.
That's true Pele, and unions charge a very low charges to represent their members and they are effective in getting fired or mistreated employees back to work but when it comes to demanding and getting money, they are not good in that.
they punish ordianry citizens instead of tehir friends which is the Govt
Unfortunately that's the sad reality.
personally think that these workers deserve the treatment they are getting from the UNIONS & the ANC if not worse. Come election time, the same workers are gonna vote for the very same ANC who's showing them a middle finger now.
One & Only?,
you have no idea how this makes me feel. These people are not happy with their party and sometimes when they toyi toyi, then barricade streets and want us to join in their service delivery riots but it is them who put the ANC into power. Lol @ the ANC showing them the middle finger.

One and Only
08 Sep 2010 10:26

So you think having a UNION is like having a lawyer on your side?

A close friend of mine here at work also thought so until he had a grievance, the Union Representative were literally fighting with our HR during the hearing. Come luch time we find them laughing about it over lunch at House of Coffees in Eastgate.

I lived and grew up in the townships, am still there. Well known fact was that houses of teachers, nurses, cops etc were big and beautiful than the rest. These were the 1st people to own tv's and cars until they over-indebted themselves.

This industrial action was not initiated by workers over the luinch time but by the Unions and workers were told to strike and being puppets that they are they followed. Ask them what is 8.6% they don't know.

pele
08 Sep 2010 10:35

So you think having a UNION is like having a lawyer on your side?

in most case i have witnessed they have fought for ordianry pople, we cant talk about few greedy, sell outs leaders who will rather but faces then fighting for their members.
I for one am not even allowed to join unions, it's just part of teh code and conducts of y work. But i have personaly seen a union fighting for my mom's jobs once while i was young, and she won, so tehy really are not that all bad, just a few sell outs..

Ask them what is 8.6% they don't know. 

Hahahahhaha now you making me laugh, i know what you on about man..

poshspice
08 Sep 2010 10:41

you know why their strategies are soo good......they get consultants to come and help with these.
That's true, hence there is (partly) no money to pay public servants. Then my questions is, why hire incompetent people who can't develop a simple strate
gy. 

Makisto, unfortunately if incompetent public servants are fired, it is us muntuz who will take to the streets accusing government of not looking after its own people and remember the incompetent person could be your and my sister, mother, brother, cousin who put food on our table.

In government, a manager with a staff of 100 people, in most cases only 10 people are competent, what does he do with the rest, fire them? and unions accuse the employer of unfair treatment of previously disadvantaged black South Africans....it is complicated! 

Ngwanab
08 Sep 2010 10:49

@ pele They take advantage of the poor in election time, so it's time for you to give them the taste of their own medicine. we all should vote u for the next President. Good point indeed. 

@makisto what happen ka 2007 strikes the offer that was table benefitted many people because government tabled more than wat was requested by unions. Like salary progression moving a person from one scale to another additional of 1,5% for PS staff and OSD money for the Professional staff. But the disadvantage ke gore most of public servant can’t afford bond houses and no work no pay money was deducted for many months.

poshspice
08 Sep 2010 10:52

Ask them what is 8.6% they don't know.

Hahahahhaha now you making me laugh, i know what you on about man.. 

heh heh do not underestimate public servants, they know exacle what 8,6% means...they read daily sun, Isolezwe, Ilanga lase Natal, Sotho news on TV..there are union reps in the workplace, employees group themselves and explain to each other..

actually, I learnt not to underestimate the masses when Zuma won elections...

 

Cande
08 Sep 2010 10:57

I am sooo disappointed in them stopping the strike, our good goverment only listens that way. There is money to meet their our parents's demands. The goverment spends the taxpayer's money on other things and they cant afford to pay our parents a decent salary? I soo wish the SAPS could join so that the whole country is shut down. Pity innocent lives are lost, the goverment can take them to private hospitals mos and afford to pay that? Not every public servant is lazy and rude, so yeah like FK says meet their needs first and fire them if they dont deliver... The 8.6% and 1000 housing allowance they asked for is even still not enough according to me

pele
08 Sep 2010 11:02

Posh my cousin is a nurse in Joburg Gen, i asked her about this 8.6% she laughed at me and said ''uyazi mntase andiyikhathalelanga noba yimalini leyo, as long uba benyusa imali qha""..it's not underestimating it's stating a fact..

we all should vote u for the next President. Good point indeed.

LOL, I will run and hide in the Eastern Cape the day you elect me, tjoo that  too power goes into pople's heads, it just changes people to behave out of their own characters, only a few can handle it!! 

Cande
08 Sep 2010 11:04

Ngwanab you guys need to go on strike again if they deduct your monies ka this no work no pay, besides if all public servants are striking who knows gore are you at work on not? i mean if the teachers and principals are on strike how will the circuit office(which is also on strike) know that u guys where not at work???

Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 11:05

LOL @Oand O

Im very coflicted about this situation as i always am for the reason you mention above. Yes and plus the fact that the strikers themeselves tend to be very violent, but that aside

I just want to know:
1. Are the teachers getting salaries that are worth the work they do in this country. 
2. Does the country have money to meet the salary increase demand that have been put forward. 
If there is any report that i can read to understand this id like a reference please. Before i join any demostration with anyone i need facts. Those responsible for this must give out a comprehensive report so that everyone involved can understand and put forward valid concerns. 
Because what i hear so far i cant sympathise with, especially because i grew up on a salary much less than what those people on 3rd degree say they take home. My mom still still LIVES on less than that and she does  lot with it. 

As things stand, ts only the union leaders and those in the minitsry that have access to information and yes..the people on the ground are just told that they must strike for 8.6% and up they go striking.....does anybody ever ask why not 20% so they can understand the logic behind the demands that they are striking for?

And another thing, ONLY regarding the salary increase, i imagine that whether the ruling party ke DA, IFP or whatever, this situation will always be there and needs to be there. When we talk of service delivery, id more than happy to point fingaz at the ANC, but in this case i think we are stretching it, unless im missing some logic behind what everyone is saying.
  

Ngwanab
08 Sep 2010 11:19

@ One and Only?Ask them what is 8.6% they don't know.  I know ur entitled to ur wrong opinion but next time u do think before u speak or write. Wat ar u trying to say about public servant gore their stupid they can’t differentiate stupidity, reality or read.

For ur information Mr or Miss too good shoes. Union do educate/ communicate with member  via Newsflashes/ daily updated Website with salary scale and how to do de calculations step by step. So next time do the research before u try to act better than the teachers u taught u to be wer/who u are at this moment

Sobza
08 Sep 2010 11:30

I would rather have a lawyer than have one of those ANC aligned unions, I work for a municipality and I cancelled my membership last year, they are there to just chow our money.

Mathaz
08 Sep 2010 11:32

Being a former public servant and having family members who are public servants, i am quite disappointed by some of the comments here....the DPSA also informs the workers about the tabled offer. 

Vesa
08 Sep 2010 11:36

Does the country have money to meet the salary increase demand that have been put forward. 

@ GA, you raise a very good point on this one......considering the recession that we've just come out of and many other factors. 
I was told that the ministers can reduce their salary bills, expenses etc.....I don't know if the Gov can afford to pay them the salary they are demanding.

poshspice
08 Sep 2010 11:38

Because what i hear so far i cant sympathise with, especially because i grew up on a salary much less than what those people on 3rd degree say they take home. My mom still still LIVES on less than that and she does lot with it.

True...but people are learning from politicians that money is more important than serving your country....why must they serve the country with dedication accepting  average pay when the Nyanda's and Malema's are enriching themselves, while the teachers and nurses are working under bad conditions, hospitals are short of panado & basic necessities to stabalise patients, soap to wash hands... and considering the burden of diseases such AIDS, the workload is very high, hospitals are in bad conditions and resources are not made available..


BigMama
08 Sep 2010 11:42

@Mathaz, not all comments will put a smile on  your face, some will make you wish not to ever visit this site, some will make you cry, but just take it as a debate and move on. My mom earns far less than all these people but you can't believe how far she has gone with that 2cent salary of hers.  Its all about learning how to use your salary wisely, be debt free and enjoy what you have.

makisto
08 Sep 2010 11:44

the people on the ground are just told that they must strike for 8.6% and up they go striking.....does anybody ever ask why not 20% so they can understand the logic behind the demands that they are striking for?
Salary scales go with the cost of living GA. I forgot the term they use.  I think there is money but the ANC-led government doesn't want to give it to workers. Those who also read this article, will have noticed where the government can get the money from.

Yes indeen the people just go into debt. Someone on 3rd Degree said she's left with R4 000 after she pays for her son's university fees. You cannot blame that on the government. Yes I sympathise but sometimes I really don't when they speak about their financial burdens. My mom earned less than R1 000 a month yet I managed to go to university for a period of 4 years. So there she comes and complains about the R4 000 after paying her bills, it makes me kind of angry.

And this other spoke about her policies and I was jesees maan, that's also not the government's problem if you go into debt knowing very well how much you earn.

One and Only
08 Sep 2010 11:46

Ngwanab you guys need to go on strike again if they deduct your monies ka this no work no pay
Cande this is not gonna happen as these workers did not initiate the strike themselves but were instructed by Unions to do so. If the Puppet Masters (Unions) say it's over, it would be over whether the workers like it or not.

So next time do the research before u try to act better than the teachers u taught u to be wer/who u are at this moment 
You are 100% correct here, I was taught Afrikaans & English in Zulu. I had a Maths teacher who after teaching for +/-10 yrs still couldn't solve Calculus problems. 

I had a Science teacher who when doing Chemistry had never mixed the chemicals and achieve what is written in the textbook.

How I wish these workers to come and work in the private sector where you are given targets and performance is reviewed bi-annually. If you are not doing well, you get sent to Performance Programmes and the failure to improve leads to dismisal.

Lobby the girl
08 Sep 2010 11:54

Well said BM..

Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 12:06

I was told that the ministers can reduce their salary bills, expenses etc.....
And even if the cut the expenses vesa, which they should by the way, wil that make any difference to the ammount that the public workers are demanding? Im genuinfly wondering, i wish we had figures at our disposal to figure this out and present a strong argument to parliament then.

but people are learning from politicians that money is more important than serving your country
I would hope that they arent doing this to spite the governemnet because then they are going about it wrong way....or very indirect. The issue of government officials misusing our resources should be dealt with up front and by everybody. We must all have strike against that, a massive one were we block roads as their expensive cars are driving past..or better yet, we shouldnt vote for a goverment that misuses our money.

However, I expect salary negotiation strikes to be dealt with diffrently because even if services were satisfactorily delivered, such negoatians need to always be there.... And i would want a sensible argument with market supported facts and what not.
And so far i havent heard anything convincing, if you gave 2000 rand house allowance some people, i included would always wish a had 3000 rand house allowance if i ddnt have a better understanding.

But in anycase...based on what Ngwanab is saying, i assume then that those affiliated with the unions are privy to such information so that they strike purposefully with facts to back them up. I hope it is the case in general. Im not affiliated with any union yet, hence my ignorance.

FK
08 Sep 2010 12:12

1. Are the teachers getting salaries that are worth the work they do in this country.
Looking at what the Private schools are offering, I dont think they are getting what is worth.  In one of the stories on 3rd Degree, this teacher has many years of experience and she is getting R9k a month whereas her counterparts in the private schools are getting double if not more than that.  Why is that? So based on market related stats, they are not.

2. Does the country have money to meet the salary increase demand that have been put forward. 
I want to believe that the country has the money to meet their salaries.  It is just that they are not putting the money where it is most needed.  I dont think it is about recession, it is about getting their priorities right.  Look at the ministers packages, do they really deserve that?  Oh, and why do they think they have to bail out Eishkom and SAA all the time?  Look at some of the Governement Tenders that have been awarded without a business case.  They just created the need and issued them to their pals and they even went on paying their pals without even delivering on the scope. 

pele
08 Sep 2010 12:14

Does the country have money to meet the salary increase demand that have been put forward. 

1. We have proven we have enough money in our pockets by building staduims for billions without any profit due to us, but we didnt mind the world did pat our backs that is just what we wanted.

2. If we pay without checking lossesand just give ministers who claim for their car-kms(latest by Patricia) close to R200 000,  it means we have money  so many things to look at and try to accomadote our own citizens.

3. Zuma's wives,
4.  the expensive 5 star  hotels, 
4. these out of the blue conferences like the one the ANCYL had in Gallagher these past few weeks, 
5. the corruption in our gvt sectors 
6.ETC, ETC the list is long 

GA we have enough, we just have to take our citizens grievances seriously.

i dont think paying someone who you call a civil servant R4000 a month is fair at all i dont care wht they use thier money in , civil servants must be part of the middle class that's the least our country can do like other countries.

Sobza- you can only opt for lawyers when only you can afford them, we sure dont wnt civil servnts to sue the sttes everytime the is a minor work misunderstanding that will be chaos.




maddie
08 Sep 2010 12:30

the problem here is that we've got poor leadership, country, departments, municipalities, state-owned enterprises the list is endless 

check the resumes of all those in power/leadership and you'll understand why we r in a crisis

the decision makers for an example in a municipality r councillors who worked as teachers, prison warders, policemen before so u tell me and I mean no offence whatsover when these people r presented with items that range from technology, engineering, finance etc how r they going to grasp these things and make decisions when they have zilch knowledge on the above.


government would rather spend millions on consultants instead of training their staff to do the job for a much lesser price and that also capacitate your personnel and u don't have to worry about lack of skillls in the near future.

but then again that's where corruption is cos when a tender goes for a consultant already they know who they're going to give it to again poor leadership wrong people for the job, mostly your GMs and DGS are deployed by the ruling party.

if the system does not change am afraid we're still going to debate these issues in years to come, chances of the system changing r very slim considering that the people would rather vote for the same system than trying another alternative - fear of the unknown i suppose. some of u here r complaining and come election time u'll be voting for the same system u r complaining about so yah u get what u voted for except for those who voted otherwise.

u don't have to vote for DA or COPE there r other oppositions u need to spread ur votes so there'll be balance of power and the current regime will start taking service delivery seriously , u all r killing urselves

Khafo
08 Sep 2010 12:32

Honestly, some don't know what 8,6% is. The unions on the other hand are  pushing their own personal agendas at the expensive of esp. low earning workers. The are intellectuals in unions.

So, the govt. will have 75% for salaries and 25% for other expenses......mmhhh.

Personally, I think  the lowest levels should get 8.6%

Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 12:34

Posh..what happened...;)

Someone on 3rd Degree said she's left with R4 000 after she pays for her son's university fees. You cannot blame that on the government. Yes I sympathise but sometimes I really don't when they speak about their financial burdens. My mom earned less than R1 000 a month yet I managed to go to university for a period of 4 years. So there she comes and complains about the R4 000 after paying her bills, it makes me kind of angry.

And this other spoke about her policies and I was jesees maan, that's also not the government's problem if you go into debt knowing very well how much you earn.
Exactly how i felt yesterday.

makisto
08 Sep 2010 12:40

poshspice, is that blank space shortage of teachers and colleges? tltltltltllttltltl lol to the power million

poshspice
08 Sep 2010 12:44

OMG sorry guys, please delete Makisto!

makisto
08 Sep 2010 12:45

some of u here r complaining and come election time u'll be voting for the same system u r complaining about so yah u get what u voted for except for those who voted otherwise.
Tell 'em Maddie.

Miragirl
08 Sep 2010 12:47

Well said maddie

mathata
08 Sep 2010 12:56

I  saw it coming when  ppl zabalazing for thieves to run a country.what did you expect.....deal withit.

Miragirl
08 Sep 2010 13:01

U are so right makisto

realist
08 Sep 2010 13:13

GA, this regime set a precedent by indulging in luxuries and when questioned, it was said that the money was budgeted for. Now the public servants are asking why they did not do the same when it comes to their increase. The money is there but the problem is it is not budgeted for. That is what this regime keeps telling us. 

Zuma during the election promised to improve the condition of public servant and they are still waiting. 

This country can afford to pay the public servant better than what they are getting only if this regime can appoint suitable people outside of the ANC. Presently they appoint an incompetent person to do the job and that person when he fails is given a golden handshake and the next incompetent cadre takes over and the cycle is repeated. 

Tenders goes to those who have no clue of what it’s going on and as result the same job has to be done twice or more than twice and end costing the taxpayer up to a billion rand. 

Take for an example, the apartheid government builds the road to last for 50 years and we paid only the petrol levy to fund the project. Now this regime only adds few extra lanes to the free way and we are going to be charged an arm a leg to use them.

GML
08 Sep 2010 13:17


Someone on 3rd Degree said she's left with R4 000 after she pays for her son's university fees. You cannot blame that on the government. Yes I sympathise but sometimes I really don't when they speak about their financial burdens. My mom earned less than R1 000 a month yet I managed to go to university for a period of 4 years. So there she comes and complains about the R4 000 after paying her bills, it makes me kind of angry.

The funny thing about this is that they are left with R4000 after medical aid and provident and retirement funds have been paid up.

And if you're left with R4000 after paying university fees then You're well off compared to those who earn R4000 with no medical aid etc and stil have to pay for school/varsity fees.

Ngwanab
08 Sep 2010 13:33

@Cande People who wer not on strike had to sign a register in de morning, afternoon and before knocking off. As a proof gore indeed they wer not part of people who wer on strike. And some teachers had to go to police station to do the affidavit as proof of attendance. 

And I still believe gore government has money to pay public servant. Why reason ke gore most of the people who are holding top position are so selfish and always hungry for more money. Expensive cars, restaurant, house etc. and on top of that most of them earns R150 000 per month while a teacher ya 20 years experiences earns R150 000 per annum. 

@One and Only You are 100% correct here, I was taught Afrikaans & English in Zulu. I had a Maths teacher who after teaching for +/-10 yrs still couldn't solve Calculus problems.

I had a Science teacher who when doing Chemistry had never mixed the chemicals and achieve what is written in the textbook.
Pls blame that to bantu education if ur part of that !!!

realist
08 Sep 2010 13:40

to be honst me too, our pople will get paid R12000 per moth after deductions they will still toyi-toyi as they alwys over comiit themselves with debts, and but unncessary materials without investing for the future,
That is the problem with us. We don’t invest in our future instead we like to impress to people who don’t even matter in our lives.

I’ve noticed that in most cases people like to put their money in the bank and think that it will be enough to sustain them. If you are doing the same you must know that you banking yourself to bankruptcy. Try investing in the stock marked for 5 years then you will see how wealth is created.

 it is a bit tricky to give someone a minumum wage , as we really cant know each and everyone's minimum expenditure, but at least they must be given a salary that can be equal to their hard work, for instance, paying a nurse R4.500 after deductions is suicide, pay them at least R8000 and then we can start deabting what is the minimum wage.

That is the problem with us. We don’t invest in our future instead we like to impress to people who don’t even matter in our lives. 

Even R8000 is not enough. Look at this way; from 2000 onwards the property marked appreciated to an extend that most people could not afford to pay for a bond. A property that cost in the region of R140 000 now cost about R500 000 or more depending with the area you leave in. It took me just 7 years to finish my bond but if I have to go into a bond now I don’t think I will finish it in 7 years because my salary now is behind compared to what it cost to pay for a bond.
 
I full agree with that lady from 3rd degree, R4000 is not enough for the whole month. If it is true what she is saying, she is paying for the necessity so far and still she has to pay rates and taxes and as you know it can be more than a grand a month.




Vesa
08 Sep 2010 13:48

This country can afford to pay the public servant better than what they are getting only if this regime can appoint suitable people outside of the ANC. 

@realist, I couldn't have said it better. Political appointments must stop PERIOD. I will give you an example....
Most of Gov department CFO's have no or little accounting background. I know the position is a strategic one, but at least he/ she needs to have working knowledge on the matter.

You have a CFO that earns a lot of money, but cannot prepare Financial Statements. Mind you the National Treasury has made their job even easier by preparing a template for them, and all they need to do is to populate it. They still fail to do that and end up hiring consultants that charge exhorbitant fees to come and do the work. This is very laughable.....and nothing is done to get the CFO's up to speed.


Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 13:56

This country can afford to pay the public servant better than what they are getting only if this regime can appoint suitable people outside of the ANC......maddie adds...the problem here is that we've got poor leadership, country, departments, municipalities, state-owned enterprises the list is endless
Then this should be dealt with directly in a diffrent forum. Yes there is a cause and link to the strike and incompetence in the governemnt, but I think mixing up all this grievances all at once doesnt help, because if the negotiations satisfy the public servants this issue will then be laid to rest only to rise up the next time there is need for negotiation or someone is not satisfied.
It goes without saying, that we should keep them accountable at all times even when we are comfortable, questioning the long term effects of their expenditures and incompetences.

poshspice
08 Sep 2010 13:57

You have a CFO that earns a lot of money, but cannot prepare Financial Statements. Mind you the National Treasury has made their job even easier by preparing a template for them, and all they need to do is to populate it. They still fail to do that and end up hiring consultants that charge exhorbitant fees to come and do the work. This is very laughable.....and nothing is done to get the CFO's up to speed. 

Vesa, good finance people do not want to work for government, they say salaries are low....some departments have tried to advertise CFO's jobs but the best candidates would turn down the offer saying the amount of budgets they have to manange qualifies them to be paid much more....sometimes, govt is forced to employ less competent people

realist
08 Sep 2010 14:19

GA, these grievances are they a challenge or a problem? If they are a problem then let us get on with it and solve the damn problem. If they are challenges what tools do they require to be able to win the challenge? We can’t go on forever like this.

Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 14:48

I agree with you Realist..whether they are challanges or problems (as you described earlier), they should be tackled directly so we can get them aout of the way. So that the next salry negotiation demontration will be about that and nothing else....
Now i will be more than happy to attend an imbizo that will tackle this issues. If i knew how, i would mobalise the discussions so that we are proactive about this challanges/problems..and not react about them when we want a salary increase. 

Beyond the strike or before the next strike, the finance ministry must account on this expenses that have been mentioned. i must say, i applaud the DA for always being at the heel of such irregularities exposing them. Its unfortunate that as far as i know, nothing is ever really done after they make a noise on Chris Gibbons(sp) midday report. I wish they held on to the end but they give up easily when they get snubbed by the ruling party....
Or maybe what extra support do they need to see this to the end and to have people responsible being held accountable?

Regarding the issue of icmpetent people in crucial positions when they dont know the job.....really, the only solution here is to vote for parties that value skills and expertise over struggle credentials...and ill put my opinion on the line here and say the DA can do that. Otherwise, again, the ministry in charge must be probed on their appointees...from the inside, i.e...from the people in those departments who see such things. 

Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 14:50

"mobalise"..,meant mobilise...eish...Juju has gotten to me with this one...

realist
08 Sep 2010 15:12

GA, Ok I get you loud and clear.

Mathaz
08 Sep 2010 15:33

In all fairness, the government did say they are to stop with cadre deployment in municipalities.  Tjo some of you guys have got no confidence in our leaders neh...things are not always what they seem.  Take for instance the spending on cars, it's within the minister's right to buy that expensive car...it's contained in the ministerial handbooks.  With the CFO appointments, not all of them lack financial info. in fact the govt. is moving to hiring CAs in those positions.

makisto
08 Sep 2010 15:41

Take for instance the spending on cars, it's within the minister's right to buy that expensive car...it's contained in the ministerial handbooks.
Of course we have no confidence in them since they lack a simple thing of being able to prioritise thing. Instead of them being entitled to cars that cost over a R1m, why don't they say R500 000 and save the other half a million. It is also withing public servants' rights to be fairly paid and provided with resources to do their work. Take that other half and hire three more nurses at a public hos[ital or clinic or better yet, buy computers at public schools in our rural areas and townships.
In all fairness, the government did say they are to stop with cadre deployment in municipalities.
In all fairness, they are all talk-talk and no action.

makisto
08 Sep 2010 15:43

And yes, in all fairness, they must also stop with hiring their cadres as DGs!

myname
08 Sep 2010 15:47

I enjoy your debate guys although it was too long.

I agree with people who sympathise with public servants. My best friend is also a nurse & sometimes i feel sorry for her but she is one of the good nurses i know.

But i cant say that about udabawo (my aunt). I know she is one of the b**** nurses. She is like that even at home.

FK
08 Sep 2010 15:48

@Mathaz - yes it is contained in the ministerial handbooks.  So why cant they come up with a handbook that will prescribe what public servants  should earn based on their experience?  I am tired of this.  Every year in and out they have to be reminded that the public servants are not paid according to their worth.

With the CFO appointments, not all of them lack financial info. in fact the govt. is moving to hiring CAs in those positions.
I know 1 CA who has been appointed in one of the departments.  The thing is the are slow at doing this.  I wish they can just speed up the process. 

Mathaz
08 Sep 2010 15:52

Mara to be factual when the govt budgets, they don't  do it like when you do your groceries and decide that they've got extra there and therefore they'll put it to use in some other project.  One gets penalised for underspending as well as overspending.  Mara guys how can you expect the ANC to hire DGs and HoDs who are not politically aligned to them?  Haawu, let's just be fair...

makisto
08 Sep 2010 15:59

Mara guys how can you expect the ANC to hire DGs and HoDs who are not politically aligned to them? 
Because they are people who can do the job and do it well. Not because the person is married to JZ's daughter or is JZ's friend from the days of the struggle.

FK
08 Sep 2010 16:00

Hence it is important for the governement to look at the critical thing to be achieved and prioritise.  They need to budget for public servants.  Let this be an annual thing, then they will not find themselves in this situation.  I have said before, the government has money, it is just using it in not so important areas.

I dont have a problem if the gwavament decide to hire from ANC, as long as the hired person can deliver.  This is reality, they have hired their own for wrong reasons. Do they want people who will do the job or they want spies? No wonder there is no service delivery.

Mathaz
08 Sep 2010 16:09

So we are agreeing that the govt should hire from within the alliance as long as that person has got experience and knowledge of the respective govt.  You guys are are young and an educated lot, why don't you join the ANCYL and be the future DGs and HODs...remember the future of this country is in your hands.

poshspice
08 Sep 2010 16:09

@mathaz  Tjo some of you guys have got no confidence in our leaders neh...things are not always what they seem.

it's hard to have faith in them Mathaz.

However, having said that, I also feel that it would be a big mistake to vote a party like DA to power.

It's unfortunate that COPE couldnt cope, so while we don't have an alternative party to vote for, let's make noise, demand better treatment from government, let's point out their failures, expose corruption, be hard on them until they get it right no matter how long it takes..

Because even with the DA in power, there will be nepotism, corruption, favouritism, these problems will still be there,it iis said the more things change the more they remain the same...let's help this government to get it right.the 

We have benefited a lot from the new dispensation, our lives have improved a lot and we cannot afford to loose the power that was fought for so hard.

The media must continue to expose corruption, we must continue to be highly critical even towards each other and make them feel the heat until things are at an acceptable level...

FK
08 Sep 2010 16:14

why don't you join the ANCYL and be the future DGs and HODs...remember the future of this country is in your hands.
Remuneration not luring for me.  Besides, who will be my boss?  I can bring all the change / experience to the gwavament, but if my boss has no vision, it will all be in vain.

One and Only
08 Sep 2010 16:36

Mathaz are you sure you don't have standard 2 just like our intelligent president jacob zuma?

Now understand what Lucky Dube menat when he said one time we were judged by the colour of our skin but now are judged by the colour of our flag.

The ANC is allowed to high within its alliance but the problem is that most of these guys are plain illiterate.

All the doubts I have about the intelligence & reasoning of the people who are voting and supporting the ANC has now been removed.


Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 16:51

let's help this government to get it right...
Unfortunately Posg..its easier said than done. From distant obsevation, when you have an opinion that will take out a couple of bucks out of these leaders they will find a way to squiiz you out or muzzle you. This happened to 2 of my friends who were in the wits ancyl. Very smart guys who were eventually sidelined and they had to quit and leave the kids to do whatever pleased their agendas. ...'God forbid you do that in Mpumalanga coz you'll find yourself on the hit list.

The only way we will know whether change will bring about a difference or not is if we...vote for change and see.

Unless there are things we can do to influence changes in the current administration. Ive lost hope, but ill jump on any wagon that can make an impact.

poshspice
08 Sep 2010 16:59

Mathaz are you sure you don't have standard 2 just like our intelligent president jacob zuma? 

eish O&O uyayonake lendaba manje...beka uvo lwakho unga attack umuntu..

Green.arrow
08 Sep 2010 17:05

I can bring all the change / experience to the gwavament, but if my boss has no vision, it will all be in vain.
True FK...or if your boss has their own agenda that seeks to enrich only themselves, they wont hear you out anyway...so it will be invain.

In all fairness, the government did say they are to stop with cadre deployment in municipalities.
In all fairness, they are all talk-talk and no action.
Very true

Tjo some of you guys have got no confidence in our leaders neh...Im one of those Mathaz who have lost all confidence and it does mak me sad....... things are not always what they seem. I think tyhings should clear in the first place. This shouldnt be tricky at all. But if GREY is the way things are..i wish someone would make the effort to make us all understand so that we arent as in the dark as we are. Or is there perhaps somewere were infomation is abound for us to feast on so we know exactly what ther governembnt is up to and or not?
I have been to the ancyl website....and there is nothing there its unbelievable. But let me be proactive and go to NYDA, been wondering about them.

swazzy
08 Sep 2010 21:12

makisto ur article is nyc bt den u contradict urslf . 1st u say wrkers shudnt strike n at da same tym dat they r underpaid. i tnk da wrkrs had a ryt to strike as government refused to offer wat the ppl wer askn fo a mere 8,6% n 1000 housing allowance, which is taxable. @ da current moment housing allowance is 500 bt at da end of da day da wrker takes home less than 350. i wrk in a hospital n even thou didnt part take in da strike i tnk my collegues did sumtyn dat felt ryt fo dem n i dnt blame dem.gov doesnt care n da only language it understands is strike. it is tuf to b a public servant coz u dnt get promotion easly n growth is a scare tin so ppl depend on da yearly incrment to progress. my point is we shudnt judge wrkers ,we shud b venting out mo abt da pathetic zuma administration. yes ppl r dieng whc wil happn to ol of us one day eventuali n it cud b coincidence dat dey die durin n strike period. bt fact is hospitals wer staffed helen joseph da leadin mafia hosp was staffed da only services dat wer affected was food n laundrey. n i knw dis coz i wrk der n was der full tym durin strike. so lets nt say ppl died coz pf strike or coz da wrkers dnt care. in da frst place dey wudnt be wrkin as health care providers if dey ddnt hav hearts. thou shall nt judge especiali if uv neva b in dat situation

maddie
09 Sep 2010 08:14

Tjo some of you guys have got no confidence in our leaders neh...

mina i have no confidence in them, i work with them and what i c i don't like at all

let's help this government to get it right... 

the only way for us to help them to get it right is to strip them of their powers by voting for any opposition

why don't you join the ANCYL and be the future DGs and HODs...remember the future of this country is in your hands. 

well good luck with that, y does one have to join the organization to get a top position y can't people get jobs based on merit.

these people have an aversion toward intelligence so you'll be odd ones out especially you tvsa bloggers with your way of thinking u won't survive trust me

mathata
09 Sep 2010 08:33

why don't you join the ANCYL and be the future DGs and HODs...........nobody on TVSA  is ready to sell his/her soul or Venter.

remember the future of this country is in your hands......hm....clean or dirty one??

makisto
09 Sep 2010 09:03

makisto ur article is nyc bt den u contradict urslf . 1st u say wrkers shudnt strike n at da same tym dat they r underpaid. i tnk da wrkrs had a ryt to strike as government refused to offer wat the ppl wer askn fo a mere 8,6% n 1000 housing allowance, which is taxable.
@Swazzy
, I am not contradicting myself. I am saying nurses are essential services and must not be allowed to strike. Yes they are underpaid but that doesn't mean innocent people should die because they are underpaid. How is that contradiction? I made my point very clear and I don't want to enter into an English class here. I am sorry if I sound rude but it seems you didn't understand what I wrote and you quickly commented. There is no where I contradict myself. We are all paying paying tax and I don't see why their R800 and 7.5% must not be taxed.
my point is we shudnt judge wrkers 
No one is judging them. I commend you for not taking part in the strike because you know lives are more crucial than money. We are not judging them, we only lost our sympathy when they started to get violent and chase patients away.
Swazzy, seeing you are a nurse, what is your take on your rude colleagues? YOu cannot say people will eventually die so it's a coincidence they die in the strike. Nurses and doctors have no right to kill

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2010 09:37

LOL@  mathata and maddie...i agrre with you guys.

Lbg
09 Sep 2010 09:40

Swazzy i think your the reason why One and Only? is right to think that they don't even know what 8.6% is. You can't even construct a simple sentence unless your blogging from  your phone........this is sad.

1. Are the teachers getting salaries that are worth the work they do in this country.
Looking at what the Private schools are offering, I dont think they are getting what is worth. In one of the stories on 3rd Degree, this teacher has many years of experience and she is getting R9k a month whereas her counterparts in the private schools are getting double if not more than that. Why is that? So based on market related stats, they are not.

FK
I don't know if you have had the experience of been at a private and a public school before you can start understanding they worth.

FK
09 Sep 2010 09:52

@Lbg - I might have generalised on that statement.  What Im saying is, there are good teachers, with experince in public school, with a shortage of resources, but still deliver good results at the end of the year.  Those are the teachers I was referring to, not the rapists and lazzy ones.  Now these teachers, deserve to get what their colleagues are getting in private schools.

@swazzy - I so want to respond to your comment but your lingo is just making it difficult for me.

pele
09 Sep 2010 09:55

Swazyyy nc nc nc nc, what do you do at the hospital again? majority of nurses on public hospitals have no heart they take the nursing career just to put food on their tables, minority love their job and are angels that is a fact. 
i think we have a right o judge people who claim to love their job but once they dont get the money they want they can be vicious and turn on their patients like they did in the past strike.

Hopefully the 21dayds strike wont happen as we have seen enough violence and disrepect from our so-called angels.

makisto
09 Sep 2010 10:18

I like what Mathata and Maddie are saying.
You cannot join an organisation that's anti-change and anti-service-delivery. You will crack the whip on them and you will be removed. What's the use? I have no ambitions of become a DG or a DDG for that matter.

Vesa
09 Sep 2010 10:23

@Lbg.....in the private schools are getting double if not more than that. Why is that? So based on market related stats, they are not. 

The private schools and the former model c school teacher's salaries are not solely from the Gov. A portion of the school fees paid goes to the school trust fund that has been established and it helps to top up the teacher's salaries. Hence the expensive school fees. 

mathata
09 Sep 2010 10:29

d evil root of this problem is why  Zwlithini get paid every f* month?why zuma chicks get  house allowance n so on n on(yes makhumalo only),it should be his problem how they  get accommodated.....Not our TAX money to solve his problem                                    
,last but not least.....why all  for suddenly Tall gates.......??

Is not wise the way they spend our TAX.

If nurses n teachers are not happy......what will happen with the future of this country???/that means we are going  back where we come from.

FK
09 Sep 2010 10:30

@Vesa - thanks for highlighting that.  So basically the private schools are being paid their worth. Yes, the whole salary does not come from gwavament, but then the gwavament must start budgeting for it.  There is no way they are gong to get it right by now asking the parents to pay more for the fees / school funds.  That we know it is not going to fly.

I will say it again.  The gwavament can afford to pay the teachers their worth, if they start budgeting properly.

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2010 10:32

I think its a shame though makisto...that capable are being intimidated off this crucial positions because of their tendencies...its a shame and a loss for the country

I look at the intelligent, articulate Zimbabweans scattered all over the world and i know grouped together they could take zim very far...but i also understand that the cost of trying to go against the regime must have been too high that it was better to leave the country...its a shame...african governance is still far from shaking off its inner Idi Amin.

im curious to see how Kenya (my fav african country) will do since unveiling their "new constitution" recently. 

makisto
09 Sep 2010 10:33

Very well said FK, they can afford to pay them their worth.

Green.arrow
09 Sep 2010 10:34

I think its a shame though makisto...that capable people are being intimidated off this crucial positions because of their tendencies...its a shame and a loss for the country

I look at the intelligent, articulate Zimbabweans scattered all over the world and i know grouped together they could take zim very far...but i also understand that the cost of trying to go against the regime must have been too high that it was better to leave the country...its a shame...african governance is still far from shaking off its inner Idi Amin.

im curious to see how Kenya (my fav african country) will do since unveiling their "new constitution" recently.

zozoe
09 Sep 2010 11:18

Haibo le re they earn R150 000 a month and yet get allowances tsa R1m

zozoe
09 Sep 2010 11:18

Haibo le re they earn R150 000 a month and yet get allowances tsa R1m?

mathata
09 Sep 2010 11:28

even if you host a party .......you can host it every week....maybe they will say  one head R200......hm!

makisto
09 Sep 2010 11:49

Haibo le re they earn R150 000 a month and yet get allowances tsa R1m?
Yebo yes Zozoe

zozoe
09 Sep 2010 12:01

tjo!!

i am hurt nxa our precious Zuma

mathata
09 Sep 2010 12:23

i wish Debra patta......to  interview those ppl who got Top post....to show their CV....n how long that post has been advertise.n who was doing interviews.

oneday we will hear that Malema is high commissioner.........OUR BELOVED COUNTRY.

poshspice
09 Sep 2010 14:44

Heheheh just heard about ZEE Zuma Economic Empowernment-MALEMA is Back

swazzy
09 Sep 2010 18:46

lgb does it matter were im bloggin from as fo constructing a full sentence, no comment wat matters is sum people understood. and what are you on about? fk sory about my way of writing im so used to short cuts. makisto tnks fo da classes but dey are not needed as the language is understood . why i say you contradict urself is clearly this time. u sound like you feel sorry fo the workers but you say its wrong at da same time fo them to strike. u are supporting them and against what they belive in at the same time thats were the contradiction comes in. i wud understand if u said the workers shudnt put money before the lives of patients as lives are more important. the reason workers went to the streets is coz they are not appreciated. they provide one of the most essential services and are not acknowledged fo dat. im not a nurse and wud neva be one as nurses have to put up with *bleep!* literally. as fo them being rude, i believe whenever you deal with people you are bound to come across different attitudes. it doesnt nessary have to be nurses. some people all over dont know how to deal with others. the only times iv seen nurses having an attitudes is when patients are non compliant . and nurses are regulated by policies and the batho pele principles. anyway if people feel they unfairly treated there are proper channels to follow to lay a complaint. why i say some deaths were a coincidence is becoz very serious cases were taken to private institutions. and we non strikers were there to take care of the others. all im saying is lets atleast feel fo the workers coz one day our lives might be in their hands.

swazzy
09 Sep 2010 18:47


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