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ANC, Cele Arrest Sunday Times Journalist

Written by makisto from the blog Frankly Speaking on 04 Aug 2010
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The ANC and General Bheki Cele must be taking the nation for fools. Three days are barely over after the Sunday Times exclusively reported on a shady business deal involving the Police boss and the very same reputable journalist who wrote the story is now behind bars.

Sunday Time journo
Arrested for exposing the allegedly corrupt Police boss General Bheki Cele and the Police as well as the ANC disguise the reasons for arrest

The war between the ANC-led government and the media has now gotten very nasty with the ANC arresting journalists. It is very clear that Luthuli House swords are now out for the reputable Sunday Times. The ANC wants to gag the media and this is uncalled for, downright nasty and self-serving.

We cannot keep quiet about the ANC's self-serving actions of bidding to silence the media.

Lawyers say wa Afrika was arrested for possession of what police claim is a fraudulent letter of resignation from Mpumalanga premier David Dabede Mabuza to President Jacob Zuma, reports thetimeslive.com

The ANC
The ANC sowrd has pierced the heart of the Sunday Times

The Sunday Times's sister publication website continues, Wa Afrika was seized by police who became involved in a screaming match with senior editors about whether photographers could take pictures.

The arrest came at the same time as a Sanef-organised meeting of journalists to discuss threats to media freedom.

Wa Afrika was one of the journalists who wrote the story about police commissioner General Bheki Cele revealing that police top brass would move to a new building at a cost to taxpayers of more than R500-million. 

It can be argued that Wa Afrika's arrest has everything to do with the ANC's plan to gag the media and the political party has just set its plan in motion. What is sad is that the political party focuses its energy on fighting the media instead of fighting crime on the streets and corruption withing its ranks. What's worse is that the story on the letter hasn't even been reported yet. The ANC is losing touch with reality and it speeding on 360 km/h to shut down media houses and have the New Age as the country's only paper.

Sunday Times paper
JZ, ANC have a score to settle with the Sunday Times

It is high time that we chant on the streets and chant for total media freedom. The ANC cannot be allowed to continue like this. It is turning into more than what apartheid government was and sadly the president of the country, who, in his own words has, during his innaugoration at the Union Buildings (last year) said: "We must fight for the freedom of our media". It is clear that he said a wrong preposition and said "...for the freedom..." instead of "...against the freedom...". Why is the President of the country very quiet on this matter whic is a national emergency. Surely this threat requires presidential intervention.

127 Comments

khanyi
04 Aug 2010 15:15

It is true that if you give power to those who were oppressed, they will soon become the oppressor. What the ANC is doing is not right. Does that mean journalist cannot write anything bad about the ANC? Should the newspaper only be the mouthpiece for the government and not report about the bad thing that they are doing?

khanyi
04 Aug 2010 15:15

It is true that if you give power to those who were oppressed, they will soon become the oppressor. What the ANC is doing is not right. Does that mean journalist cannot write anything bad about the ANC? Should the newspaper only be the mouthpiece for the government and not report about the bad thing that they are doing?

makisto
04 Aug 2010 15:18

Khanyi I'm telling you the ANC wants us to sing them all praises.

GML
04 Aug 2010 15:31

So this journalist was basically wrong for writing that the SAPS head quaters were moving to another building? And have they actually verified that this letter is in fact fraudulent?

makisto
04 Aug 2010 15:36

Yes the journalist was arrested for reporting on that tender processes were not followed when Cele bought the building and the Police cop avenges by arresting the journo. The constition of this country states that people have a right to information and this info is in the public interest so we can punish the ANC at the next polls. I was slowly starting to warm up to the ANC and was inteding to vote for it in  the next elections but I shall not be voting for it. How does the Police know if the Sunday Times was going to verify the letter because they haven't reported on it yet. This is totally sick...

makgotso
04 Aug 2010 15:42

Hawu Makisto,wasnt he arrested for fraudulent letter kanti *confused*

Mag G
04 Aug 2010 15:43

What happened to the law of "EVERY ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH" including the press ,the journalsit was just doing his job ANC  has a lot of "corruption" .and as long as im also gonna reavel it!....you can  arrest the journalist ,burn down the press but you will never stop the flow of information.

decoupage
04 Aug 2010 15:44

whats up with this cut & paste of stories from other publications. Isn't tvsa supposed to be about blogging about the entertainment industry? Where is the creativity of coming up with unique angles on this stories rather than just telling us what the newspapers are saying. Sorry I don't mean to be nasty but I'm starting to miss the fun side of creative writing on tvsa. This "according to whoever" thing is just boring. I don't mind them but only if they don't become a regular thing.

Holiday
04 Aug 2010 15:45

This journalist I hope he tell the trueth before some trigger happy idiot solve him.

decoupage
04 Aug 2010 15:48

Why is anyone surprised that the ANC wants to silence the media? The ANC led government is introducing policies of the apartheid era simply because they have the majority in parliament. First it was interference with the judiciary, land seizures from farm owners and now harrassing the media. Wait isn't that what Mugabe is doing in Zim? The writing is on the wall and blacks are blinded by loyalty to the ANC to see it.

Mathaz
04 Aug 2010 15:54

Was he not a journalist at Sunday World sometime??  Anyway poeple in the know say that his arrest has got to do with a number of expose and political killings in Mpumalanga.

maddie
04 Aug 2010 16:12

come election time u lot would have forgotten about all of this and vote for ur precious ANC.

what happened to communications minister and his currupt dealings  - mr siphiwe nyanda - nothing, zilch, nada

gentlemen it was nice playing with you - the titanic is now sinking

Toodecent
04 Aug 2010 16:32

They are at it again..

Lobby the girl
04 Aug 2010 16:36

Eish politics..thta;s y i dont bother .myself about voting..vote and let ya voice be heard..foot foot nonsense man..JZ and his accomplice makes me sick ..

Green.arrow
04 Aug 2010 16:44

Degoupage mann!....ke thoma go go felela pelo jwatse and i dont like that...
Sorry I don't mean to be nasty ...sorry but you are being nasty..if something is lacking..then be proactive and do something about it.

It can be argued that Wa Afrika's arrest has everything to do with the ANC's plan to gag the media and the political party has just set its plan in motion. 
mara makisto that the ANC is sabotaging this journalist is still speculation as well akere..lets wait and see whats going on, this could very well have nothing to do with the latest news..could be a coincidence....*trying veeeery hard to remain hopefull still*

What is sad is that the political party focuses its energy on fighting the media instead of fighting crime on the streets and corruption withing its ranks....
Its sad indeed. This type of effort would go a long way when crime is concerned. But its sad that we have to see that and maybe scream it at the top of our lungs, we have the capacity to do good, but those who should implement are so sleepy its beyond disheartening. Its the same situation ya the world cup success,  we are yet to see that excelet service delievery attitude traslate to our day to day service delievery. heish mara...

It is high time that we chant on the streets and chant for total media freedom
I would join in this particular protest. And im just wondering...what can be done, what can proactive measures besides debating and talking can be done, by the media houses and all who arent happy about this...so that even if our attempts to stop it fail ,we can atleast say we did something...when we go out to seek asyllum one day..lol

Green.arrow
04 Aug 2010 16:50

come election time u lot would have forgotten about all of this and vote for ur precious ANC. .......hee maddie, ga o tsebe wena...i couldnt vote last year sadly...i had regeistered and all but i couldnt:-(...Ryt now, im so compelled to start campainging for people NOT to vote for the anc..u can vote for whatever, but please not anc hle, pretty please...
Hellen Zille mentioned something some weeks ago..she said the success of the opposition in the countyry, is the success of the country...
Ke thomile gona ka mokgwa o. ..

poshspice
04 Aug 2010 17:08

"this could very well have nothing to do with the latest news..could be a coincidence....*trying veeeery hard to remain hopefull still*"


Yep GA let's follow this story closely, it appears Mzilikazi is a controversial figure himself and has had shaddy dealings in the past, Sunday Times had once fired him for them...

The Police are saying his arrest has nothing to do with his job as a journalist, it is a personal matter and they gave him an opportunity to hand himself ove to the police without all the drama

whatever the truth is, the timing of his arrest is still very suspicious and the manner it was done...6 vehicles to arrest a harmless journalist?

makisto
04 Aug 2010 18:23

Blogging from my BB and will reply to all tomorrow, just wanna reply to dec, if you check, it is only in this article where there is prominent cut and paste. With my previous article I did it to show that I jave done some reading on my subject matter and thay beamed through. I always give my personal analysis on each article I write. About TVSA being about the entertainment industry, th clear instruction I got for my blogs to always feature on home page was thay my writings should be TV related and news is TV related. Like GA suggests, why not be the change you want to see? Anyway, dogs don't bark on car that's not moving.

Msosty
04 Aug 2010 18:23

Cande
05 Aug 2010 00:49

Woow even if his arrest was personal, the timing is very wrong! SA is staring to sound like Zimbabwe or the aparteid goverment.

realist
05 Aug 2010 06:53

Makisto, how come you never mentioned anything from the Hawks spoke person. Btw, Cele did not authorize the leasing of the 500 million building. He only signed the need to have the new building. He has nothing to do with the tender process for the building. How come you don’t mention those facts?

Again General Cele has got nothing to do with the arrest of this journalist; the Hawks are responsible for the arrest.

So what you saying is that the journalist are above the law and therefore should not be arrested even if it is alleged that they have broken the law and should not be investigated.

Since you have copied and pasted this article from the times, should we now take what was written there as facts? The times have a vested interest in this case therefore what they report cannot be taken as facts unless verified.

Please come with your own analysis of this story and just maybe I may be convinced about this whole saga of the media and the ANC.

For the record I’m in favour of the tribunal provided there are no members from the press, political parties and the state.

realist
05 Aug 2010 07:28

I see on the other article you wrote about the media Pele has quoted some findings from the ombudsman and what I observe is that the media concern were only reprimanded and that is the end of it.

They should not be reprimanded but made to pay a fine since reprimanding will not result in any consequences fro the media.

Yesterday while listening to Kaya fm, a lady was defamed by the city press and the City press issued an apology but when you Google the name of that lady all those allegations that were made against her is still in the media. Now who is responsible for clearing her name? Should it be her or should it be City press.

Now if the tribunal was in existence, trust me the City press would have ensured that all that was written about her would have been cleared because if not they will face the consequence. With the ombudsman all they will get is a reprimand and a retraction of the statement.

Mondli Makhanya did confirm on ETV that the ombudsman faces some challenges and there is a need to involve the society when it comes to dealing with complaints from the media.

Does anyone believe that self regulation work? If so give one example where this self regulation works.

I mean so far the people that are working in the media are only providing one side of the story and not presenting the other side of the story, right or wrongly.

pele
05 Aug 2010 07:53

i am sorry Makisto i am saving my views on all this once i have enough facts, at the moment it's digging and planning times for Journo's. Talk is cheap, too tired to be on the 'i told you so Bandwagon for now''...''let me go dig''

pele
05 Aug 2010 08:19

Realist you think we should be jailed not reprimanded, just imagine getting jailed for Truth, facts, Wow!!! 


Zim was sabotaged by loyalists in every process that started there a long time ago, ppl kept voting by heart, their brains started to finally function when the whole country was in starvation and in hands of their beloved Mugabe. Actually SA is an African state so nothing is new in Heroes turing into Tyrants.

As for cut and paste articles, Makisto keep them coming, it's better  for me and others to debate politics in cut and paste articles than debating entertainment like Big Brother, and snobbish articles of bored wannabe's!

Mathaz
05 Aug 2010 08:47

I am no law expert but if a warrent of arrest is issued, will it not contain the charges levelled against you?  Why the secrecy surrounding the charges?
This all does not make sense to me...anyway when City Press broke stories about Malema's tenders he did threaten them and said he was to deal with them?  If Mzilikazi broke the law then it's understandable but if they want him to reveal the name of the sources or where he got that fake fax from then we all should be worried.  We live in a democratic society and the ruling party must understand the role of the media, is the SABC's propaganda not enough bathong?? 

makisto
05 Aug 2010 08:47

come election time u lot would have forgotten about all of this and vote for ur precious ANC.
People only vote for ANC because they feel indebted to Nelson Mandela, they need to understand that the man is no longer the president and the ANC is just getting nastier.
Woow even if his arrest was personal, the timing is very wrong!
I couldn't agree more, why now of all times? Very very very very wrong. Today a journo writes a story two days later he is arrested.
6 vehicles to arrest a harmless journalist?
This speaks volumes about the ANC, Cele! Don't even get me started on wasting state resouces! You arrest a journo in the same building that senior editors are busy discussing a way forward on media threats? The ANC has got some nerve!
SA is staring to sound like Zimbabwe or the aparteid goverment.
If this istuation continues, we are headed to Zim I'm telling you.
How come you don’t mention those facts?
There is what we call story angle, focus and treatment. This article is about the ANC and Cele harrassing the media. I wasn't writing about the Sunday Times expose we all read that on Sunday and if you didn't, go to the times website.
Again General Cele has got nothing to do with the arrest of this journalist; the Hawks are responsible for the arrest.
Don't make me laught. Are you really that naive?
you saying is that the journalist are above the law and therefore should not be arrested 
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying ANC must leave journalists to do their job in peace and not interfere with the business of the media.
Please come with your own analysis of this story and just maybe I may be convinced about this whole saga of the media and the ANC. 
If this (copied from my story and in italics below), according to you, is not analysis, please di give me a desciption of what analysis is.
It can be argued that Wa Afrika's arrest has everything to do with the ANC's plan to gag the media and the political party has just set its plan in motion. What is sad is that the political party focuses its energy on fighting the media instead of fighting crime on the streets and corruption withing its ranks. What's worse is that the story on the letter hasn't even been reported yet. The ANC is losing touch with reality and it speeding on 360 km/h to shut down media houses and have the New Age as the country's only paper. 
For the record I’m in favour of the tribunal provided there are no members from the press, political parties and the state.
This beams throughout your argument and I appreciate that you are honest about it. At least the ANC can learn a thing or two from you about their clear intentions.
They should not be reprimanded but made to pay a fine 
Ibrahim Rasool was busy with brown envelope journalism an dis now appointed SA ambassador to the US. What about clean reputation? No one is perfect as I quoted ready in my previous article = Journalists and Politicians are not perfect but we cannot allow the ANC to be a control freak.
lady was defamed by the city press 
But you say the City Press issued a retraction.
Mondli Makhanya did confirm on ETV that the ombudsman faces some challenges and there is a need to involve the society when it comes to dealing with complaints from the media.
I didn't watch that and was only able to watch Enews late edition. Yes the Ombudsman faces challenges in that society doesn't undertand the role of the ombudsman lol.
Does anyone believe that self regulation work?
The advertising and law industries.
the media are only providing<

makisto
05 Aug 2010 09:02

If Mzilikazi broke the law then it's understandable but if they want him to reveal the name of the sources or where he got that fake fax from then we all should be worried. We live in a democratic society and the ruling party must understand the role of the media, is the SABC's propaganda not enough bathong??
The law makes it clear that journalists should not reveal their sources if the source wants to remain anonymous. They want their propoganda to extend to print media hence they want to put a stop to investigative journalism and start the New Age that will tell us how many houses have been electrified since 1994 and not tell us about irregularities on how they gave the electrifying tenders to their cronnies. Of course we must be very worried Mathaz. Mzilikazi is simply being set up by the ANC. Cele got his buddies to send the fax so he can arrest the journo. It's that simple!

One and Only
05 Aug 2010 09:31

come election time u lot would have forgotten about all of this and vote for ur precious ANC.

Couldn't agree with you more Maddie, this is where it's starting from - if that get fixed there would be nothing to worry about.

This is what happens if you take kickbacks from the ANC, when they no longer need you and you want to do your job properly you get eliminated.

All these black journalists should be arrested for feeding us the nonsense for this long.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 09:47

All these black journalists should be arrested for feeding us the nonsense for this long.
One and Only? Could you please elaborate on this statement and I would like to debate on it.

poshspice
05 Aug 2010 09:54

Again General Cele has got nothing to do with the arrest of this journalist; the Hawks are responsible for the arrest.
Don't make me laught. Are you really that naive? 

Yesterday when I saw the headlines I got concerned at how a conclusion has been drawn that Cele is involved, does anyone have evidence that he is involved, imagine if he is not - his image would have been dented because as we speak the media is now comparing him to Jackie Selebi...soed the media publish assumptions or facts

you saying is that the journalist are above the law and therefore should not be arrested
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying ANC must leave journalists to do their job in peace and not interfere with the business of the media. 

Why should the media be left at peace when it has been proven again and again, and the editors such as,Peter Bruce, Mondli have admitted that there is definitely a need for the media to put its house in order 

and since the  media tribunal issue has been in the spotlight, suddenly the apologies are making front page of the newspapers which was not happening in the past. It shows that the media needed a shake up, to say you are not above the law and the citizens that you serve. Is not only politicians who have been wronged by the media, even ordinary citizens have been victims of false media reports.. 

zozoe
05 Aug 2010 10:01

makisto
05 Aug 2010 10:02

Poshpice, I stated that, like anyone else, journalists are not perfect and sometimes fall into traps just like any other human being. The timing of Wa Afrika's arrest definitely necessitates any critical thinker to ask what Cele is up to. The media is not out fo order as you allege, it only needs to sort out a few issues and I have already spoken on this with regards to why ignorant citizens need education on the Ombudsman. Le teng, how can you have a layman in a council that deals with the law fratenity, for instance? It's just silly and insane lol.

poshspice
05 Aug 2010 10:13

Typos!!!  

Another issue that the ANC is overlooking is of the informers (just like in corruption the role of the corruptor is usually overlooked).

For journalists to get high level information e.g. the 500 million tender they need  highly placed sources. Very few people in departments get involved in such negotiations and it is very senior officials and very confidential.

Within government and ANC they have agents or those who are unhappy that their friend's companies did not get the tender renewed, the new management is bringing its own friends etc.  while the politicians are focusing on the media, the reality is that comrades and officials are sabotaging each other for tenders and power and supply this info to the media....

makisto
05 Aug 2010 10:16

Within government and ANC they have agents or those who are unhappy that their friend's companies did not get the tender renewed, the new management is bringing its own friends etc. 
You spoke about writing verified facts and now you go back on your word and are the first to overlook what you think needs to be done. What happened to leading by example? I'm just wondering nje!

pele
05 Aug 2010 10:52

Posh actaully the tribunal is exactly to shake informers ''leaks'' dear, i have mentioned this in our last article about this.  they want frighten sources not media tu.

Makisto everything that is happening now happened in Zim 10yrs ago, journalist going to jail minutes before states tribunals so i suggest you lay low my brother, i can see you love your job but sometimes ppl need to see after effects of wht they agree with, in this case let those who in favour of the tribunal gloat, soon they will get what they asking for.

Mathaz
05 Aug 2010 11:06

I did not want to say it but any country that keeps tabs on the media is a dictatorship, any country that has no respect for the media is a dictatorship, any ruling party that has its own newspaper is a dictatorship.  Oh my, there was something i read on part 2 of the Chikane files when Mbeki was told that he was to be recalled, he mentioned that what kind of comrades do this to one of their own and Chikane explained that the ANC and the ANC comrades he knew are no more.  We live in a time where power has corrupted our politicians absolutely.

realist
05 Aug 2010 11:11

Realist you think we should be jailed not reprimanded
No, I don’t want any journo jailed for reporting anything that is factual and truthful and also I don’t want any journo to be jailed for reporting anything that is without facts and untruthful, but they should be fined a hefty penalty for reporting anything that is without facts and untruthful.

If you reprimand how will they change their attitude? If you fine the living hell out of them then they will think twice before they come with stories that are baseless.

Anyway this tribunal will affect mostly the print media if indeed it does materialise. 

Poshpice, I stated that, like anyone else, journalists are not perfect and sometimes fall into traps just like any other human being.
Therefore they should be forgiven if they get it wrong sometime!!! I say crap they must pay the penalty for their errors and nothing else.

Yesterday when I saw the headlines I got concerned at how a conclusion has been drawn that Cele is involved, does anyone have evidence that he is involved, imagine if he is not - his image would have been dented because as we speak the media is now comparing him to Jackie Selebi...
Makisto, can you please confirm. This time make it factual and not allegations. 

Like the General said he only signed the declaration of need for the building and nothing else.

Why should the media be left at peace when it has been proven again and again, and the editors such as,Peter Bruce, Mondli have admitted that there is definitely a need for the media to put its house in order
Makisto, please answer the above in such a way that it makes sense.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 11:12

You have a point Pele because I am feeling scared already. It's either we succumb to ANC's dictation ways or we stand up against it. Either way, the youth of 1976 died for a cause they believed in. So to use Madiba's words, I love and cheerish the ideal of a free media, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to speak out on, if it needs be, it is an ideal which the powers that be can arrest and jail me for and send their cronnies to kill me in jail. I would rather die for a cause I believe in that live an unhappy man.

realist
05 Aug 2010 11:15

Posh actaully the tribunal is exactly to shake informers ''leaks'' dear, i have mentioned this in our last article about this. they want frighten sources not media tu.
Now that I agree with you totally. That is the essence of the tribunal. They want to use it to limit the damage of how corrupt they are.

One and Only
05 Aug 2010 11:15

Some people really take their jobs too seriously when they are the ones who have made it a joke, no one is going to disappear here.

Give me a reason why would a Daily Sun journalist disappear! Unless taken away by aliens they always writting about. 

Sunday World journalists would write in 1 week that Jacob Zuma is not paying papgeld and the following week apologise and say they made a mistake it wasn't JZ but it was FW de Klerk. Does that journalist qualify to disappear?

When Malema was chasing away that British journalist, fellow journalists did not take a stand but laugh and put that crap in all the papers and now that it's hitting home you start complaining.

Izintatheli zonke nje zingumbulalazwe.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 11:20

Pele
Makisto everything that is happening now happened in Zim 10yrs ago, journalist going to jail minutes before states tribunals so i suggest you lay low my brother

One and Only?
Give me a reason why would a Daily Sun journalist disappear! Unless taken away by aliens they always writting about. 

Ya ne, One and Only, are you sure I work for the Daily Sun? Ignorance is not bliss lol
kwakwkakwkakwkakwkakwkwakwaka

makisto
05 Aug 2010 11:21

I am busy formulating your answer realist.

pele
05 Aug 2010 11:42

I am very sorry anything from One and Only always sounds like a joke, i really can't take this guy seriously. LOL.

The Daily Sun one top the cake tlltltlltltltlltltl

One and Only we really do need humour in the teething times, thanks a lot.


That is the essence of the tribunal. They want to use it to limit the damage of how corrupt they are. ...it's only part of it, in the end destroying journalism all together, because a story with no source is more like , a pit bull dog with no teeth dear, hence we are willing to fight against it.

hloni
05 Aug 2010 11:45

Makisto- your headline is an opinion printed as fact. This is the crux of the problem with our media...they print assumptions and represent them as fact. It has to stop. Yesterday the media ombudsman found City press guilty about a story that was printed last year august about Kgalema and they will only apologise now...a full year later....and this to the deputy president...imagine how long it would take to apologise to an ordinary public member...that's BS.

poshspice
05 Aug 2010 11:45

Like the General said he only signed the declaration of need for the building and nothing else.

Realist the editor of the ST yesterday insisted that he has a document that has the name of the company, the amount of the deal with General's signiture....on this one I don't know!!  let's say if it is false teh General has to sue the paper and present that document he says he signed...

on another note there must be drama in the general's office these days, him tyring to find the person who leaked the information, people around him are suspects, trust have been broken, heads will roll and they will be replaced by the old trusted comrades..now you see why there is cadre deployment?  to manage things like these comrades!

Mathaz
05 Aug 2010 11:54

R500 mli, would that not need approval from the minister??? To think that the General was doing so well, there he goes doing something that totally does not make sense.  Why would he sign a 11 year contract whilst his term is only for five years, i think?  Why did they not just buy a building that will last them a lifetime? 

Cande
05 Aug 2010 11:55

Lol@ 1 and Only! Hahahahha u always crack me up! The daily sun line killed me. Beware Makisto.lol

pele
05 Aug 2010 11:57

Yesterday when I saw the headlines I got concerned at how a conclusion has been drawn that Cele is involved, does anyone have evidence that he is involved, imagine if he is not - his image would have been dented because as we speak the media is now comparing him to Jackie Selebi...
Makisto, can you please confirm. This time make it factual and not allegations. 

Do you really think now we will get facts about this story, after the case is in the hands of General Cele office, (confirmed bth Cele's office spokeperson this morning) ppl sometimes you dont use eyes(heart) only in things you use your brain, just like most policeman uses their sixth sense in cases. a journo doesnt jst waker up and say 2moro i will go and tarnish Zuma's name, that's my mission, keep this in my mind--'where there is smoke theri is always fire, even if that fire will come in 20yrs frm now. Your left brain needs to work 24hours sometimes.

hloni
05 Aug 2010 12:08

The media is first and foremost profit driven...and the one thing that sells is bad news...even during the 2010WC when everyone was in a celebratory mood, all the media was printing was the possible/imminent xenophobia(another media spun phrase for unemployed/poor ppl fighting over jobs with foreigners who are willing to work for much less) attacks after the tournament when there was no such widespread threat. We were fed everyday about COPE...the new hope...now that it's imploding we hardly hear a single word. Biased reporting and it has to stop.

realist
05 Aug 2010 12:09

Poshpiece, Since Cele said he signed only the declaration of need and the Sunday Times say otherwise, how come they did not publish on the very same article they were reporting the about. Something is fishy here and I will wait for the further developments also.

The Dept. of public works is the one that said it signed the lease without going through the necessary tender process. 

Like you said, trust has been broken in Cele office and heads will definitely start to roll.

This is exactly what you said in your posting of 8/5/2010 4:13:39 PM. 

So far it looks like Cele is innocent but will wait for further info from the Sunday times. I think the issue with Cele is the owner of the building and if they can clarify that then the facts will determine who is guilty, Dept. of public works or the General.

makgotso
05 Aug 2010 12:18

But how come are you overlooking the fact that two government officials in MP were also arrested regarding the matter okay let me go back to my cocoon

hloni
05 Aug 2010 12:30

Two examples of the media brainwash -

When Zuma was fired by Mbeki as dep Pres the reasons cited were because the judge in the Sheik case found there was a corrupt relationship between Zuma and Shaik. When the judge came out later and said he never said those words...ST(and any other publication who said he did) never apologised even though this was mentioned a reason for him being fired from his job.

In Zuma's rape trial...he was asked what he did after having sx and he replied that he then took a shower(which is the most hygenic thing to do)...this was printed as if he took a shower to prevent aids...to this day Zapiro still depicts our democraticly elected president with a shower in his head.

Media spin at its best....and it has to stop.

There is no such thing as an independent media...who owns these publications and what are their interests...cos the way things are being reported you would swear there is nothing positive about this country...i guess that's the whole mission.

realist
05 Aug 2010 12:42

The print media needs to accept that they messed up and they should own for their cock ups. The general feeling I have from listening and reading some of the electronic media is that the public is in favour of the tribunal provided that there are no vested interest from the press, politicians and the government.

mysista
05 Aug 2010 12:43

Okay kids gather around, I have really bad news to share.Okay take a deep breath and try not to cry, here it goes...THE ANC IS NO LONGER A LIBERATION MOVEMENT.It is now a political party with all the resulting corruption. the Post- Polokwane ANC is dominated by people who are in plitics as a career therefore the aim is to use one's position in government to get paid, line your pockets & make a fortune.It is no longer about helping the disadvantaged millions.We as darkie need to stop being naive and registering shock and dismay everytime they engage in questionable and at times illegal politicking.I know that this is very sad it's like finding out that there is no tooth fairy!

pele
05 Aug 2010 12:48

Makisto it seems the Pres and Kgalema re singing a different tune so yeah let's wait for the meeting before we get worked up by all this, hopefully we wont get a raw  deal after the meeting. 

heheh Hloni you need to get your facts straight bru about the shower story, you obviously were not in court that day.

hloni
05 Aug 2010 12:50

@Pele...but the journalist sometimes show us smoke where there is no fire. Nowadays they create news instead of reporting news. During the WC they were going out of their way inteviewing foreigners in the street about what they are going to do after the WC since there's gonna be widespread xenophobia...this is clearly a case of spreading mayhem and panic in the community. Before the WC...etv went out of its way to find some 'thugs' who were apparently threatening to rob and kill tourist during the WC...this was aimed at scaring away tourist and soccer fans.

Now we are being again sent into a panic by the media saying we are heading for Zimbabwe with the media tribunial...we live in a constitutional democracy here and media has to understand that the right to media freedom doesnt supercede all other rights like privacy, human dignity etc.

hloni
05 Aug 2010 12:56

@mysista....ohhh only after Polokwane did it cease to be a liberation movement?

@Pele...set the story straight for me my brada.

Mokema
05 Aug 2010 12:57

Openness and Transparency.

I for one as a tax payer am very saddened by what our govt is doing with my money, and I want to know believe me and the media will gladly inform.
If the journalist was in possession of the letter and he hasn’t published it why was he the only one arrested because they say the sender forwarded it to journalists not him alone

Others are enriching themselves with our money through their own companies benefiting from tenders or that of their friends and relatives,

Doing what they know is wrong with our money e.g. buying personal stuff

Booking expensive hotels for nothing, oversees trips, while they can afford it with their salaries

Expensive cars while they culd be saving

And the list goes on and on everyday they just amaze us poor South Africans to the extend they will go to be rich quickly
That’s why they are fighting coz they are not looking into our best interest but their own
I just hope 1 day they will pay 1 by 1, for their evils doings

Green.arrow
05 Aug 2010 12:59

(just like in corruption the role of the corruptor is usually overlooked). 
a little offtopic...but i heard a coupla days back that Agliotti will also be prosecuted as the corruptor, where Jackie Selebi was the corruptee....To me it was a little confusing ge because it does seem like the shabir/Zuma case...Shabir was the corruptor right?..and was prosecuted and the corruptee Zuma..wasnt?....correct me if im wrong hle...

pele
05 Aug 2010 13:01

i wont brada, Zapiro gave you  the pic and the media told you exactly what he said but you just choose to have your own version or analysis, i wont even waste my energy tu.

hloni
05 Aug 2010 13:08

Just last week...when the stats(not survey, not opinion, but statistics) of the country employment equity was released there was no widespread reporting about how white males are still being recruited, promoted and paid more than any other sector...and this was low-key because it represents the unfairness and wrong-doing of the private-sector....we all wanna hear of the troubles of the public sector.

In case u were wondering...the media decided to ignore this startling statistics and rather focus on a tame tiger that escaped from the back of a van.

Everybody in this country has heard of Panjo...and we dont know about the lack of progress made in the employment equity for the past 16 years...kanti which one matters most to us. It's clear the media feels we care more about a tame tiger.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 13:13

Hloni is just being unnecesarily antegonistic and all I'm gonna say is you cannot tell the media to stop writing stories because you are not Mugabe or a ANC-Mugabe-disguised. I shall not stop writing. I have spoken about the timing of the arrest of Wa Afrika, Cele story, media tribunal and Protection of Information Bill. Now you tell me these are all unrelated matters. Stop being naive, wake up and smell the coffee lol. Realist, Pele answered your question. But this isn't about the WC. Since it is mentioned, I did see on TV some Zimbzbweans on Beit Bridge headed home saying they fear Xenophobic S Africans. Hloni doesn't know what transpired between JZ and the rape victim. JZ is a traditional Zulu man. In Zulu culture, or any culture for that matter, having a shower after sex decreases your chances of contracting HIV if you slept with a + woman and researchers say policies should be developed on this matter and WHO is reluctant. Realist, the print media didn't mess anything up, ANC is a control freak. Pele tell 'em!

makisto
05 Aug 2010 13:15

Just last week...when the stats(not survey, not opinion, but statistics) of the country employment equity was released there was no widespread reporting about how white males are still being recruited, promoted and paid more than any other sector...
You obviously don't read the Business Report in The Star or the Pretoria News. Black people must read as many publications as they can.

pele
05 Aug 2010 13:23

Hloni i am one of those who see this country heading to be Zim and that is my own opinion and most of ordinary citizens agree with me even if the was no Media to tell us of  that. 
SOME OF US: IT IS A GIFT TO SEE THINGS BEFORE THEY MATURE, WAY BEFORE THEY HAPPEN, HOW? THAT YOU DNT ASK FROM ME IT'S JUST A GOD GIVEN GIFT, maybe we physicic !!!

We just opened our eyes, when Malema was dancing with Mugabe in Zim,  my whole body was shaking. 
When Mbeki was kicked off the cabinet like a common criminal, we froze. 
When Cope and ANC were calling each other names like 'Baboon and chimpanzees'' we felt disgusted. When scorpions were disbanded so quick like lightining our eyes just had Zim all over them , do you blame us, if yes, then be hopeful that is good, levae us to our own ignorance then.

etv is not print media so whatver they do they will have to reply to you themselves.




zozoe
05 Aug 2010 13:27

i think most people will like to hear or see this debate, wow there are no attacks i love it when men argue fairly without name callings

he he he he he he he
so Juice and snacks served

realist
05 Aug 2010 13:28

Makisto, you are still messing up and that is why a tribunal is needed and here is why:
JZ is a traditional Zulu man. So what?
In Zulu culture, or any culture for that matter, having a shower after sex decreases your chances of contracting HIV if you slept with a + woman
Are you presenting this as fact or as an opnion? Is it what Zuma said in that trial?
You see now why a tribunal is needed? To deal with likes of you who report baseless accusations. 

I don't condone what Zuma did.

Btw, you still haven’t answered my question. Last time I checked you were formulating a response to my questions and also it wasn’t one question. I’m still waiting.

realist
05 Aug 2010 13:31

Black people must read as many publications as they can.
Another reason why the tribunal is so much needed.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 13:41

Realist
Yesterday when I saw the headlines I got concerned at how a conclusion has been drawn that Cele is involved, does anyone have evidence that he is involved, imagine if he is not - his image would have been dented because as we speak the media is now comparing him to Jackie Selebi...
I didn't see that I cannot comment on it. But as I said, every critical thinker can see that.
Why should the media be left at peace when it has been proven again and again, and the editors such as,Peter Bruce, Mondli have admitted that there is definitely a need for the media to put its house in order
I said no one if perfect and journalists are no different. I didn't see the Mondli thing but I believe but I believe he didn't use the words like "media get its house in order, media out of order". It should be left alone because the ANC is taking this copuntry to Zim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you presenting this as fact or as an opnion? Is it what Zuma said in that trial?
According to researchers, a shower has an effect on not contact HIV after sex and say policies must be developed on this matter. We all know Zuma is a traditional man and we respect that.
You see now why a tribunal is needed? To deal with likes of you who report  on baseless accusations.
I am not accusing anyone of anything, I am reporting on a research report I read.
I don't condone what Zuma did.
Good because we cannot have a country where men believe raping women is acceptable and should be cheerished. We cannot live like that! Thank you and we agree on this one.
so Juice and snacks served
Lolest @zozoe
We just opened our eyes, when Malema was dancing with Mugabe in Zim, my whole body was shaking.
True Pele, take the Pitso Mosimane and his Bafana job, no one was willing to confirm he will be appointed and today he is the coach. Who reported it first? The media. Who denied it? Safa. Who refused to believe the media? Some readers.
I put a stamp on the fact that there is smoking without fire. Lemme get back to work. Stories = phela I have a deadline.

pele
05 Aug 2010 13:43

The print media needs to accept that they messed up and they should own for their cock ups. 

oh really!! now sue us we wont accept anything as we dont see any mess, if reporting facts and exposing corruption is a mess then we already in Zim moss.....

The general feeling I have from listening and reading some of the electronic media is that the public is in favour of the tribunal provided that there are no vested interest from the press, politicians and the government

ANC loyalists, and few  people  like u who are favouring the tribune, you call them public? before i burst your bubble, general public wants service delivery not tribunal debates at least that is my general realistic  feeling! 

Makisto,  Hloni  NOW wants to tell us how to do our job and he is going to give us stories without hin reading business section maybe he is teh one who loves Panjo not media? heheheh

makisto
05 Aug 2010 13:44

Another reason why the tribunal is so much needed.
Oh realist my dear, you are funny. It is a fact that most Black people don't read. Example? Exclusive Books in Maponya Mall was closed because people were not buying books.

Tholi
05 Aug 2010 13:47

VIVA Gen Bheki Cele!!

realist
05 Aug 2010 13:48

I don't condone what Zuma did. I said that

because we cannot have a country where men believe raping women is acceptable and should be cheerished. Makisto said it.
Of the statement above which one should go to the tribunal if it was in existence?

Makisto, Zuma was charged of rape but the court ruled otherwise. Be careful of what you report on.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 13:50

Lol, this is not about Zuma, it is about taking a stand against women abuse and I wasn't in any way referring to Zuma. If you and others take it otherwise, then I dunno

makisto
05 Aug 2010 13:52

Le teng, I wasn't reporting, I was commenting.

mysista
05 Aug 2010 13:53

Yes Hloni the ANC stopped being a liberation movement after Polokwane.That sad episode in our country was a defining moment. Thabo Mbeki was recalled later not because of any wrong -doing or lack of leadership skillson his part, but because he dared to suggest that the country was going to fight corruption.Most leaders in the ANC feel ukuthi, they have sacrificed a lot in the past and now have no issues with spending taxpayer's money for personal gain.I think the majority in government feel that it is time they also dug their hands in the cookie jar and anyone who suggests that this is wrong will be labelled an Anti revolutionary.

With regards to the media, just because you have a right to do something it does not make everything you do right. I feel there should be checks and balances in regards to freedom of speech. Not everything the media reports on is 

a)TRUE and b) FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY.And also the media has financial interests which are more important to the media than telling the truth. Take the garbage that gets written on the Daily Sun.Is that for the good of the country?It is no suprise that the Daily Sun is owned by Afrikaners whose sole interest is to humiliate black people, whilst asking us to pay for the honour.

realist
05 Aug 2010 13:53

It is a fact that most Black people don't read.
Substantiate please. 

Example? Exclusive Books in Maponya Mall was closed because people were not buying books
Is it only at Maponya mall? Pity it is an example.

Let me give you my example
Daily sun is the most read newspaper SA in terms of circulation. Am I right or wrong?

makisto
05 Aug 2010 14:03

Take the garbage that gets written on the Daily Sun.Is that for the good of the country?It is no suprise that the Daily Sun is owned by Afrikaners whose sole interest is to humiliate black people, whilst asking us to pay for the honour.
I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement because the paper has found its niche on the market. Most of its readers are unemp[loyed, live in rural areas, shacks travel in trains and need something that will speak about them. You go to a shack and expect people to read The Sunday Times, Business Day were as they probably don't even have matric, please. Anyway, I cannot speak on behalf of the paper.
Is it only at Maponya mall? Pity it is an example.
Not only that lol, I have given a lot of my novels to buddies whom I schooled with and they just simply don't read despite them having asked for the book after I told them about it. So far, I have only heard of Maponya Mall and you are welcome to mention others malls you know.
It is a fact that most Black people don't read.
Substantiate please.
Closure of a bookshop in a predominantly blackk community. People not reading books etc

pele
05 Aug 2010 14:04

My sista i hate Daily Sun too, i feel it is there to make a mockery of our poeple, cultures etc  BUT funny enough our people love laughing at themselves  so much that Daily Sun is making loads of millions everyday. you will find a brother so proud to have Daily Sun under his arm as if it's one of the best self help books of our time.

 OFF TOPIC A LIL:

i also the hate the KFC ads,  how they potray our families all the time yet KFC is one of the wealthy chkcen fracnshise  thanks to our loyal blacks, somethings are not really doen by Medai even our own ppl alllow to be humiliated as they support these brands like nobody's business.

so may thing si can count.





 

Mokema
05 Aug 2010 14:07

realist you sure are not realistic ....wake up

Tshd21
05 Aug 2010 14:14

Breaking news!!

The case against Mzilikazi wa Afrika has been thrown out of court but the Hawks refuse to release him. The Kwa Bokweni court prosecutor has declined to prosecute Wa Afrika, saying he has no case to answer to....

realist
05 Aug 2010 14:17

Makisto, now we agree that most black people do read. Whether what they read is crap or not is immaterial, fact is they do read. I would not go as far as classifying the people that read daily as what you described them. So your myth about black people not reading is not true right?

Btw these Journos at daily sun, do they have a profession in journalism or what?

hloni
05 Aug 2010 14:21

@Makisto....eish...where do i start?...the media made everyone know about Panjo...and u dont find anything wrong in your statement that pple have to read the Business section just to get an article about how black ppl are still being sidelined...and u still have a nerve to blame black ppl for not knowing about the story becos they dont read the business section. So a Sowetan/Daily Sun or even a TVSA reader should not get to know about these stats?..

I don't condone what Zuma did.
Good because we cannot have a country where men believe raping women is acceptable and should be cheerished. We cannot live like that! Thank you and we agree on this one. 
According to our judicial system...Zuma never raped anyone and u r insuniating that Zuma is a rapist...which is not true and even worse if it is said by someone who informs the public about what's true and what's false.

Are you presenting this as fact or as an opnion? Is it what Zuma said in that trial?
According to researchers, a shower has an effect on not contact HIV after sex and say policies must be developed on this matter. We all know Zuma is a traditional man and we respect that. 
But did Zuma say this in the trial? why are quoting researchers instead of telling us what he said.

You see now why a tribunal is needed? To deal with likes of you who report on baseless accusations.
I am not accusing anyone of anything, I am reporting on a research report I read. 
So u read it somewhere?...which research report? and where is your own research? and why did u not mention that u plaguered(sp) someone else's research instead of leading us to believe u think for urself?

@Pele
ANC loyalists, and few people like u who are favouring the tribune, you call them public? before i burst your bubble, general public wants service delivery not tribunal debates at least that is my general realistic feeling!
Sorry to burst YOUR bubble...but the ANC was voted for by 66% of the country's voters....66%...that is the PUBLIC. Dont tell us about ur feelings...give us facts.


WE...66% of voters...want media objectivity and accountability. It might be just one of the things that we want...but we want it nonetheless.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 14:24

Thanks for the breaking news. Just read it on the times.com
And now people still says ANC, Cele have nothing to do with this.

realist
05 Aug 2010 14:26

@Pele
ANC loyalists, and few people like u who are favouring the tribune, you call them public? before i burst your bubble, general public wants service delivery not tribunal debates at least that is my general realistic feeling!
Sorry to burst YOUR bubble...but the ANC was voted for by 66% of the country's voters....66%...that is the PUBLIC. Dont tell us about ur feelings...give us facts.

So ther you have it.

For the record I did not vote for the ANC but I'm in favour of the tribunal..

makisto
05 Aug 2010 14:29

Zuma never raped anyone and u r insuniating that Zuma is a rapist...which is not true and even worse if it is said by someone who informs the public about what's true and what's false. 

whoooaaaaaa, stop the bus. I NEVER SAID ZUMA IS A RAPIST. LET'S GET THAT VERY CLEAR AND I DIDN'T INSUNUATE ANYTHING OF THAT SORT!!!!!!!

makisto
05 Aug 2010 14:33

why are quoting researchers instead of telling us what he said.

This article is not about Zuma

realist
05 Aug 2010 14:35

Makisto, learn not only to read between the lines but in between the lines. The response says you are insinuating that and not you said this.

hloni
05 Aug 2010 14:35

@mysista....my sister...just one question...if Mbeki had won in Polokwane...who would have been our state president? Do u know that he would have DICTATED who he would choose to lead SA. Do u realize that his defeat in Polokwane saved us from this?

The lesson of Polokwane is that no single person or group is bigger than the ANC...do u know that Zuma is the first, yes first, democratically elected president of the ANC?

Oh another question...who did Mbeki ever fire for being corrupt?
For the record...Mbeki was fired because a judge found that he may have had an influence in to when and how charges against Zuma would be re-instated(political interference). Dont u know this?

With regard to ur comments about the media...i agree wholeheartedly.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 14:40

Makisto, learn not only to read between the lines but in between the lines. The response says you are insinuating that and not you said this.
I read and understood and did an analysis of everything wtitten there and I DONT LIKE WHERE IT WAS GOING, who knows if hloni is sent here by ANC to set me up, look at what ANC is doing to Wa Afrika. Maybe Hloni is buddies with Zuma and Cele .

realist
05 Aug 2010 14:41

do u know that Zuma is the first, yes first, democratically elected president of the ANC? 
True what you are saying. What about Mbeki? Was he not elected because there was no opposition to him being elected president of the ANC?

Green.arrow
05 Aug 2010 14:42

And now people still says ANC, Cele have nothing to do with this.
i still say lets wait and see...it troubles me when we go on and on and get worked up about unsubstantiated suspicions, they only make us nervous and that doesnt help, and that you usually comes from the media side. I hate it when people keep going on and on about how SA is going to the dogs, next zim, bla bla...and even if we were to be proacdtive, we wont get anywhere if we are getting emotional because of suspicions not facts...The media needs to take care in how they report on matters...at the same time otherwise when few cases like Mzilikazi's occur, the gov will abuse them and use them as some levarge in their self centered arguments. You quoted in the other article Makisto someone who says bothe the media and the governemnt arent perfect and thats the truth we must forget when we keep to our sides of the arguments.
ofcourse the government is guilty of the other extreme..complacency and etc.... but im tired of talking about that now. 
Media houses..step up your game.
Hloni is right,...its a shame that we heard about panjolinah (as my friend says) left right and center and the stats findings where hardly reaported..its a shame. 

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble...but the ANC was voted for by 66% of the country's voters....66%...that is the PUBLIC. Dont tell us about ur feelings...give us facts.

So ther you have it.

For the record I did not vote for the ANC but I'm in favour of the tribunal.. 
In the same breath, it doesnt mean that all those in the 665 are in support of the tribunal. Unless we are talking about the fact they gave anc a biggere majority in parliament for that possible dreadfull day.

Green.arrow
05 Aug 2010 14:45

Otherwise guys...im looovin your debate...keeping me awake....
zozoe..tea e fedile na?. I know it was only meant for bontate...i dont mind left overs nd ke tla tlhatswa dikomiki...

hloni
05 Aug 2010 14:48

Just an aside.

Today...thanks to the media...Mshini wam is a Zuma song....and Dubul' ibhunu is a Malema song. Makes u wonder how come most black ppl know these songs and so many others word for word.

pele
05 Aug 2010 14:52

so you really think 60% of these ppl know wht is going on right now, plsss give me a break.

i added my feelings on that line  because Realist was adding hers, aint a journo allowed to have feeling like realist na? i was not writting stroy, so u saying it
s not ANC bvoters toyi-toying for service delivery daily, they are busy deabting tribunals?

pele
05 Aug 2010 15:00

take a walk to Ivory today, Alex, all the SQAUTTER CAMPS AREAS the same ppl who voted the ANC, will tell you strAight in your face they dont give a damn about tribunals or policies they want food, housing, etc (that is a fact)

Tshd21
05 Aug 2010 15:03

Pele and Makisto, for which publications do you work for?? *just curious*

pele
05 Aug 2010 15:06

PELE PUBLICATIONS DEAR....WANT A JOB?

makisto
05 Aug 2010 15:07

Tshd21 I don't think that has any relevence with my blogging. You want to go the Hawks, ANC/Cele and Wa Afrika on me?

realist
05 Aug 2010 15:12

take a walk to Ivory today, Alex, all the SQAUTTER CAMPS AREAS the same ppl who voted the ANC, will tell you strAight in your face they dont give a damn about tribunals or policies they want food, housing, etc (that is a fact)
Ditto.

These are the people Makisto say they don’t read. Now who are the people that are in favour of this tribunal except me of course and what do they read?

Tshd21
05 Aug 2010 15:14

LOL @ Makisto,  I did state when I asked that I was just curious nje?

No Pele, I have a job, dankie, LOL

makisto
05 Aug 2010 15:14

Realist, by reading I'm not referring to Daily Sun lol, I'm talk baout meaningful books. Everybody reads newspapers, I am atlking about books.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 15:16

What does Ditto mean fellow bloggers?

Mokema
05 Aug 2010 15:17

Case thrown out off court and the Hawks refuse to release him... Halleluya

makisto
05 Aug 2010 15:17

Lol Tshidi, one can never trust people like you because you may be an ANC cadre!

Tshd21
05 Aug 2010 15:24

Makisto, It's Tshd21, not Tshidi!!!!!!! *sigh*

Ditto means "same here" or "me too"...

I'm not an ANC cadre, but I work in the media industry, in fact, I'm also scared of being arrested, LOL

makisto
05 Aug 2010 15:33

Oh please Tshd21, wena in the media? You are so anti-media lol. 
Thank you about the ditto thing.

Tshd21
05 Aug 2010 15:36

Oh please Tshd21, wena in the media? You are so anti-media lol.

LMAO

zozoe
05 Aug 2010 15:40

Otherwise guys...im looovin your debate...keeping me awake....
zozoe..tea e fedile na?. I know it was only meant for bontate...i dont mind left overs nd ke tla tlhatswa dikomiki... eish GA i said Juice and Snacks served for everyone GA. they must have finished everything if o sa fumane letho


oops forgive me boNtate  ke tlo lata dikotlelo but metsi ke a
Dinner will be served in an Hour
Thank u

GA phela this people are having a serious debate here the only thing i can offer is refreshments as i cannot offer my input at the topic at hand

hloni
05 Aug 2010 15:43

@Makisto...Everybody reads newspapers, I am atlking about books.

Well we are talking about newspapers that u admit everybody reads...and thus they should be representative of this 'everybody' instead of pushing minor interests aimed at a small fraction of our society...namely the Zim-doom-gloom believers.

@Realist
True what you are saying. What about Mbeki? Was he not elected because there was no opposition to him being elected president of the ANC? 

There was always opposition to Mbeki...even for the dep president position...but he sidelined everyone who stood in his way with accusations(Phosa, Sexwale, Zuma, Ramaphosa). He gave us this Zuma that we are now stuck with...becos he considered him less of a threat than the others.

But even thou the other leaders clearly felt hard-done by...they never ran and started another COPY party formed of anger. They stayed becos they knew his time would be up...just as we know that Zuma was a anything-but-Mbeki candidate and his time to leave will also come. Democracy in action. Hence there would never be a Mugabe in SA...that threat went with Mbeki...he tried and failed.

makisto
05 Aug 2010 15:44

GA phela this people are having a serious debate here the only thing i can offer is refreshments as i cannot offer my input at the topic at hand
Tltltltltltltltltltltltltlt tltltltltltltl tltltltlt tltltltl tltltl hank you Zozoe, this is really funny and I need this laughter...

realist
05 Aug 2010 15:50

@Hloni
The only person I can think of who was asked to step aside was Mathews Phosa and that request was made by Mandela himself.

I could be wrong in that assessment.

As for the events that led to Zuma, I concur. 

oops forgive me boNtate ke tlo lata dikotlelo but metsi ke a
Dinner will be served in an Hour
Thank u
Lol. I'm impressed.

maud
05 Aug 2010 15:55

its nice to read some peoples view from the silent side of the corner.
i must admit i am impressed in some of the vies here.

let me go back and read

hloni
05 Aug 2010 15:56

@Pele
take a walk to Ivory today, Alex, all the SQAUTTER CAMPS AREAS the same ppl who voted the ANC, will tell you strAight in your face they dont give a damn about tribunals or policies they want food, housing, etc (that is a fact) 

True...but these ppl also dont give a damn about whether the mines, workplaces, universities, courts are transformed...should we not discuss and attend to these issues until everyone has a house and food?

pele
05 Aug 2010 15:58

Hloni you obvoiusly has read the Chikane fILES, You really need sworn in evidence from teh guy who served all 4 presidents, (Kgalema was a pres once).

those files are not from Media and they will give you more clarity than the assumption you have here

hloni
05 Aug 2010 16:00

@Realist

Dont u know that Zuma was asked to sign a declaration that he had no presidential ambitions by Mbeki. This is when Mbeki accused Phosa, Sexwale and Ramaphosa of trying to overthrow him.

I'll google the story and paste the link

Green.arrow
05 Aug 2010 16:03

lmlo zozoe...you are the best sisi...
Im no good in the kitchen and ditaba tsa bontate di a ncofusa di a ngfasinator im a ball of confusion jwale..im coming to wash the dishes now....

pele
05 Aug 2010 16:06

Hloni when now did you started to trust in stories written by the media?

hloni
05 Aug 2010 16:13

@Pele - Hloni you obvoiusly has read the Chikane fILES, You really need sworn in evidence from teh guy who served all 4 presidents, (Kgalema was a pres once).

those files are not from Media and they will give you more clarity than the assumption you have here

I have so far read the first 8 files...but i dont know which clarity u talking about...please enlighten me on what he said that u feel might change my mind on any of the things i have mentioned so far?...Please dont ignore this request or tell me about u not wanting to waste ur energy on me.

zozoe
05 Aug 2010 16:14

lmlo zozoe...you are the best sisi...
Im no good in the kitchen and ditaba tsa bontate di a ncofusa di a ngfasinator im a ball of confusion jwale..im coming to wash the dishes now.... i think i cud do with your help and you can prepare dinner as i did everything maabane 


GA lets go to the kitchen we are disturbing bona nou they are staring at us
oh Forgive me boNtate

realist
06 Aug 2010 06:36

Dont u know that Zuma was asked to sign a declaration that he had no presidential ambitions by Mbeki.
I’ve heard of that rumor. I’ll wait for you to paste the link of that story then I'll comment further.

This is when Mbeki accused Phosa, Sexwale and Ramaphosa of trying to overthrow him.
But wasn’t it Steve Sthwete that accused the three on welfare tv and later apologized?

@ Pele
Those chikane files did not say anything riveting. That process of Mbeki’s recall was to be expected in any democratic country. Margaret Thatcher also was recalled if I recall.

pele
06 Aug 2010 07:56

Hloni about the Ivrory park ppl and Alex i was opening your eyes when you mentioned 60% of voters, i was saying to you not  all voters are even aware of the rtribunal so it's not true that 60% voters are behind the tribunal proposal. Now you raising another question on top of the explanation....

I ASKED WHEN DID YOU STARTED TRUSTING STORIES FROM THE MEDIA , WHEN THEY PROMOTE ZUMA AND HIS CREW?

CHIKANE FILES, IS A BOOK DEAR, IF YOU HAVE READ THE FILES AND STILL AGREE that Mbeki was a tyrant, then let me leave YOU at your own ignorance, I will have to duck on this one, because  i promIse you we will talk until Jesus comes, we certainly are from different camps and we both will defend and see things they way it suits us (N.B.  Pele's views not media's ke)!!!


@Realist
FUNNY YOU WILL SAY the Files where not riveting but the ANC  MADE SURE THEY DEFENDED EVRY LINE SAID THERE, IT MEANS WENA YOU READ IT YOUR OWN WAY NYANI....and what's Margaret Thatcher got do with SA politics NOW?

This was  a 'riveting' debate, but some of us get to be too busy on the last hours of the week, today is my busy day.. will come and pop-in later..

mysista
06 Aug 2010 08:45

Hloni I am of the opinion that every action should be judged not only on its intention , but on the result as well. On the Mbeki issue 

1.What was the intention of recalling him?
2.Was the intention achieved by the NEC ?
3.Thirdly what were the results of him being recalled?
4. Did the result of his being recalled serve the greater good of the country?
5.Did Mbeki's recalling result in better gorvenance ( how you judge this is by asking if this event resulted in a better life for ordinary citizens such as myself)
6. Was it not political point scoring on a monumental scale?

Mbeki fired Zuma for corruption and this was underlined by the judiciary which found Shabir guilty of corruption, the only strange issue is that Zuma has not been charged for accepting money from Shabir. This is like a driver being arrested for bribing a metro cop and the metro cop being allowed to keep the money and be rewarded with a promotion.

I will never for the life of me understand why he was recalled just 7 months before the end of his tenure as President.he was so gracious in defeat and convinced many cabibet ministers like Trevor manuel to stay on in Government.I History will prove that Thabo Mbeki was the most able and honest of our leaders. Thank you Hloni for not getting personal, some bloggers are unable to seperate the opinion from the blogger and end up shooting the messenger.

realist
06 Aug 2010 08:51

@ Mysista
He was recalled because he wanted to appeal the Judgment of Nicholson and nothing else.

@ Pele
Politics is a dirty business.

hloni
06 Aug 2010 09:11

@Pele...Hloni about the Ivrory park ppl and Alex i was opening your eyes when you mentioned 60% of voters, i was saying to you not all voters are even aware of the rtribunal so it's not true that 60% voters are behind the tribunal proposal. Now you raising another question on top of the explanation....
I know u were opening my eyes...and my response was opening YOUR eyes into the fact that just because not all 66%(not 60%) of ANC voters are aware of certain issues it means they should be not adressed...i hope both our eyes are open now.

I ASKED WHEN DID YOU STARTED TRUSTING STORIES FROM THE MEDIA , WHEN THEY PROMOTE ZUMA AND HIS CREW?
I never said i read it in the media...i read in a book...The battle for the soul of the ANC is just one of them...i just said i would google it for him.

CHIKANE FILES, IS A BOOK DEAR, IF YOU HAVE READ THE FILES AND STILL AGREE that Mbeki was a tyrant, then let me leave YOU at your own ignorance, I will have to duck on this one, because i promIse you we will talk until Jesus comes, we certainly are from different camps and we both will defend and see things they way it suits us (N.B. Pele's views not media's ke)!!!
Just becos i dont take the word of Chikane(a well known, self confessed freind of Mbeki) does not mean i'm ignorant. i say Mbeki was a tyrant(ur word not mine) becos he wanted to rule for a third term and choose for us our next president...u seem to be ignorant of this fact which is a sure sign of a tyrant.

NB...just becos u scream ur views with CAPS does not make than any truer.

pele
06 Aug 2010 09:18

no man CAPS happened by mistake i had to type fast and i couldnt go back and change them, pls dnt take it as if i am bullying you to take my point, we are here to give each others opinions not trampling each other, hope u understand.

GA i hope u see i copied and pasted the 60% ....

i stole thsi moment, will come back and tyrant more of what you said later, mhh this debate is refershing my  mind.

hloni
06 Aug 2010 09:52

@Mysista With regard to ur questions...i'll just say Mbeki was recalled becos he needed to feel the embarassment for what he had done to other leaders in the ANC...ppl voted for the anc not for Mbeki and the anc was still gonna rule without him there. I seriously doubt if he had completed his term it would have resulted in a better life for ordinary citizens such as urself...so i dont see the difference...unless if can point out what he was planning to improve in the 7 months that he could not do in the 10 years he was in office.

Mbeki fired Zuma for corruption and this was underlined by the judiciary which found Shabir guilty of corruption, the only strange issue is that Zuma has not been charged for accepting money from Shabir.
Zuma was fired becos Shabir was convicted of corruption and the media said the judge ruled that there was a 'generally corrupt relationship' between him and Zuma...this was later proved to be a lie which has never received an apology. Zuma was charged with corruption only after being fired and we all now know how that ended.

he was so gracious in defeat and convinced many cabibet ministers like Trevor manuel to stay on in Government.I History will prove that Thabo Mbeki was the most able and honest of our leaders.
On the contrary...the ANC convinced the ministers to stay...Mbeki said whoever wanted to leave can leave...Manuel resigned becos he thot all ministers had to resign since they were assigned by the president.
His Aids stance and refusal to provide aids pills...the travel gate scandal...the arms deal...his protection of Selebi...his disregard of the alliance patners....and so many others have already proven that he wasnt the most able and honest leader...in my humble opinion.


Once we get personal...than we wont be able to get our respective views across...and we need to learn from each other.

mysista
06 Aug 2010 12:43

@Hloni So in your opinion Mbeki was recalled in order to embarrass him. That is very immature politics on the ANC's part.I cannot believe the pettiness and the narrowness of mind that implies. If you are happy to remain loyal to a party that engages in such sandpit politics then better you than me Hloni.These days people in the ANC would sell their blind grandmothers in order to secure a lucrative tender.

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