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SA in Bid to Host 2020 Olympics

Written by makisto from the blog Frankly Speaking on 24 Jun 2010
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South Africa has proved beyond any reasonable doubt that we are able to host any major sporting events and up to so far, the way things are going with the 2010 Fifa World Cup, it puts a big stamp of approval that this country is a force to be reckoned with...and now is a front runner in a bid to host the 2020 Olympics

Mbulaeni Mulaudzi
Of course, it goes without saying that English tabloid, Daily Star editor Howard Wheatcroft, and his journo who wrote the story titled: "World Cup fans face blood bath" with a teaser reading: "Race war declared in South Africa" must now be eating their words. They must be ashamed of themselves for practicing the lowest form of journalism by not naming their "source" (that's if they actually had any sources with their "story") and running such a defamatory article on this country. However, we shall not stoop to their level and will continue to display African culture that says Success is the best revenge.

Pretoria News
The Pretoria News today reports that the International Olympics Committee (IOC) has backed a bid by a South African city to host the 2020 Summer Olympics and Cape Town is reportedly the front runner.

Wrestling
Cape Town has tried before to host the Olympics of 2004 but was unsuccesful due to infrustrucre and internal squabbles within the bidding committee. Cape Town then lost the bid to Athens.

In 1995 we succesfully hosted and won the 1995 Rugby World Cup.

Jacques Rogge
Jacques Rogge of IOC, reports the Pretoria News, is to discuss the possiblity of another SA bid for the Olympics at a meeting with Zuma before the end of the World Cup. "It's always good news to see that a country like South Africa wants to bid", Rogge told the Pretoria News.

Katlego Mphela
The countries that are also bidding for the 2020 games are United Arab Emirates, Dubai, Tokyo, Japan, Budapest (German City) Hungary, among others. Whether South Africa can beat these "well-developed contries" to host the 2020 Olympics remains to be seen but leaders from various spheres, including SA President JZ and LOC chairman Danny Jordaan who led the failed 2004 bid, are passionate and hopeful about it.

Caster Semenya
If SA wins this bid, you can bet your bottom dollar that English tabloid, the Daily Star, will continue to drag SA name through the mud but no one will take them seriously because you can never take the paper of such reputation seriously. Besides, I read in The Times last week that the English believe that SA citizens must adopt their style of cheering soccer players in the stadia and ditch our vuvuzelas. Now doesn't that smack colonisation and prejudice? Anyway, like their tabloid, you can never take the English seriously! Remember the row about their Prime Minister James Gordon Brown during the televised election campaign when an old woman complained about his government's administration? It just goes to show, you can never take the English seriously.

President JZ
Meanwhile, South Africa keeps on going strong and focuses on major and sane developments that will enhance the image of our country and that of our continent.

If SA succeeds in its bid to host the 2020 Olympics, it will be another fisrt for South Africa and our lovely continent. Whether the English hate our beautiful country and wish us bad luck, we will continue to silence them by being succesful in major thing we do.

Danny Jordaan
Yes, I am sucking up to being a patriotic citizen and you are allowed to disagree.




99 Comments

Green.arrow
24 Jun 2010 13:59

viva mzanzi.....viva!

tizoz
24 Jun 2010 14:01

2010 Soccer World Cup

2020 Olympics

2030 SA will be the world powerhouse!

Lus
24 Jun 2010 14:02

i am patriotic as long as the will be no more tax money spent in buliding anything else makisto.

realist
24 Jun 2010 14:03

Which city would you prefer host these olympics?

tizoz
24 Jun 2010 14:08

Durban, because the stadium was built with the olympics in mind...... they have lots of experience with Athletics, the weather is always good, and its my home.

DO NOT GIVE THEM TO CPT  because the DA will claim fame and hijack the whole thing...

realist
24 Jun 2010 14:13

Between Durban, Johannesburg and Cape Town, where will you find the most tourists from abroad? Your answer will tell you which city must host.

carino
24 Jun 2010 14:15

DO NOT GIVE THEM TO CPT because the DA will claim fame and hijack the whole thing...

kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa kwa... Too true.. Next thing Miss Helen will be awarded some award as the World's best host... like wtf?

makisto
24 Jun 2010 14:21

lol the debate about the host city. I think either Durban or Cape Town should host regardless of our political differences.
@carino
Too true.. Next thing Miss Helen will be awarded some award as the World's best host... like wtf?
They quote her in the Pretoria News and she isn't all too positive about it but she supports it nonetheless so I guess it should be a Durban thing since I see reasons of the Durban Stadium but Jozi is the peferct place to host it man, do you agree realist? But Lus, surely they will need to adjust or improve infrustructure here and there because we are talking about 2020 here.

Green.arrow
24 Jun 2010 14:22

Between Durban, Johannesburg and Cape Town.....?
Was listening to the midday report (702) and it appears Durban is the favorate right now. They mentioned amongst other reasons that it already hosts more olimpic participants...dont know how factual this is and how it would sway the decision.

carino
24 Jun 2010 14:26

Not Johannesburg, please....

Green.arrow
24 Jun 2010 14:27

Personally im rooting for Durbs, for no smart reason except that i think the entire country needs to be put on the spotlight, Joburg and CT....we are okay. Durban needs a lil more spotligt.
And that Moses mabhida stadia, something about the architecture there screams..olympic to me.....

carino
24 Jun 2010 14:28

I'm on Durban too...Its just so perfect for the event.

makisto
24 Jun 2010 14:31

Yes Durban all the way then since the majority of us are all for Durban. The bidding committee please read this, it will serve as some kind of consultation with the people for you.

realist
24 Jun 2010 14:34

Makisto, Jozi and Durban there is nothing to see when not at the Olympics. Cape Town should host. Most tourists prefer to go to Cape Town and remember SA people are always broke and hardly tours. Forget politics when playing sport.

makisto
24 Jun 2010 14:39

That's what I said realist that we need to put our political differences aside and take this event to Cape Town, that's the initial city I'm rooting for and I think I will stick with it, even if any other city wins, I will still support the event. Can you guys see that things are really starting to happen for our country?

ntoko
24 Jun 2010 14:40

Hala ma bloggers am a Durbanite there4 Durban will host ..... we can't go to Cape town remember they got a grudge because during the world cup

Benni was sitting in the back seat area...area..in the back seat area...area...halakasha   GPY ((((hides))))

Strolicious
24 Jun 2010 14:40

Durban ovias and the weather there isharp .....ohh the stadium lovely.

Off Topic,,,,r thy gonna televised the Tvsa party after world cup..pls tel me the exact date.

makisto
24 Jun 2010 14:44

@ ntoko
Benni was sitting in the back seat area...area..in the back seat area...area...halakasha 
lol
@Strolicious, I think they will, not sure though.

tizoz
24 Jun 2010 14:50

Can you guys see that things are really starting to happen for our country?

Yes, things are starting to happen for the country and that is great but, I live in cape town and the mentality of the people here is not about SA but about themselves. I will be happy with whichever city that gets the bid because I am a proudly SAfrican but as for the divide the lines are still very much so visible this side of the country.... sad but true.....

blaqueboi
24 Jun 2010 14:55

Are you kidding me?!!

carino
24 Jun 2010 14:57

You can say that again, tizoz... If this thing happens here, believe me it's gon end up being a Cape Town thing other that a pride of the nation. And you know how never want to mix with other people from other cities. mciim

carino
24 Jun 2010 14:57

We'd really hog the whole event and make it a Table Mountain affair..

carino
24 Jun 2010 14:58

Blaque??

realist
24 Jun 2010 14:58

I live in cape town
I am a proudly SAfrican but as for the divide the lines are still very much so visible this side of the country.... sad but true.....
Fortunately or unfortunately it is true. Tourist wise Cape Town it is a better option.

Strolicious
24 Jun 2010 15:08

we dnt care whether tourist prefer Kaap stad or nt....i stl say eThekwini its the best option and the wheather its friendly...im frm eDebheni

makisto
24 Jun 2010 15:09

I was in Cape Town last year October for the very first time and to me, the place felt like a completely different country. But tizoz, if the event will be staged in Cape Town, I think it will be an SA event as opposed to it being a Cape Town thing.

makisto
24 Jun 2010 15:10

lol @ Carino and Table Mountain affair.

blaqueboi
24 Jun 2010 15:20

Carino, I am in shock. Why in the world would anyone in their right mind entertain the thought of hosting the Olympics in SA now. Not only is the notion stupid it's also insulting to the dying masses of this nation.

Stupid:

1. Yes we have the stadia now but more facilities would need to be build to accommodate other sports.

2. The popular vote would automatically cancel us out in the voting process if other countries from the North and South America region were to bid as well. Chicago had all the resources and Oprah but still didnt get the vote

Insulting:

I wrote in my Bafana Bafana article that Activists went to the US consulate to beg Obama Administration for help with providing health parcels. *bleep!* the poor and appease money hungry politicians. How could we even be thinking about blowing more money on a bid we unlikely to win when our people can't even afford medication?

realist
24 Jun 2010 15:27


No no Phil, you are off the mark completely. Are you saying we should not enjoy our live because we have poor people to feed? Every country has its own poor people therefore South Africa is no different to those countries. Brazil will be hosting the 2014 Fifa world cup and those Brazillians are not complaining.

carino
24 Jun 2010 15:32

kodwa Makisto, why isit that your articles always have this problem of uneven pictures? They really difficult to read. Please work on that. I will honestly say I didnt read this article at all I only caught on tizoz's reply and started gooi'ng too.

tizoz
24 Jun 2010 15:33

But tizoz, if the event will be staged in Cape Town, I think it will be an SA event as opposed to it being a Cape Town thing...

Agreed but if you look at Durban, they have all the infrastructure and skills of handling such games. The stadium with a track around it is ready, the swimming pools are there they will need a minor upgrade, mind you they are in the stadium's vicinity..... whereas CPT yes they have a stadium but it does not have a track around it and the space outside the pitch is not that much not unless they do a complete overhaul to accomodate the olympics...(more costs and Zille doesnt like spending)



blaqueboi
24 Jun 2010 15:38

Realist, oh Columbia has turned a blind eye to Cartels and himan trafficking, should we do the same then?

I thought being African was about Ubuntu and looking out for each other. Here's a thing, we can host all the major events in the world and blow all this money rather than provide basic services to our people. The results of all that will be anarchy. Remember, when black people get pissed off they dont vote out a government instead they burn things. 70 000 jobs lost this year alone while most WC related employments have been cut by 40% since the start of the event.

That means more and more families have no income. Ok fine blow taxpayers' money but don't say you never saw it coming when this nation goes into chaos because people are fed up with the gap between the rich and poor is wider than  the Grand Canyon

realist
24 Jun 2010 15:47


Recently Greece was in turmoil and not because they wasted tax payers money but because of the recession. You can do any service delivery 100% but as long as those poor communities are not paying for those services the system will eventually collapse. There is just no way can the 5 million tax payers support the 40 million non tax payers.

makisto
24 Jun 2010 15:54

I hear you tizoz
Carino, sometimes the pictures I google are not really the best pictures around. Another thing is that I resize them because they come in hi-res and are too big for the blog. I noted down your concern and will take it into consideration next time I post something.
blaqueboi, I think calling the idea of hosting the 2020 Olympics stupid is way below off mark as realist said. In order for a country to prosper, you need not only provide for the poor but put your country on the map so you can attract investors. For instance, though you don't agree, there will be investors who believe in SA and want to invest in it after the WC. The government cannot provide everything all by itself and that's where investors in various projects come in. That will create employment to the poor even if it's working to fix our raods or anything else. In order for us to boost investor confidence, we need to host such events and in turn improve our infrustructure. You cannot expect us not to host sporting tournaments because there are poor peole in this country. Every country has poor people including the US, UK and even some big shot countries. Therefore, I wouldn't say you are qualified to call SA stupid to bid for the 2020 Olympics. I think that's tabularas to say the least. No offence but it's the way I see it. The WC will not have immediate effect on the economy but the long term benefits are great.

makisto
24 Jun 2010 16:03

ok, am now off to gym and will only continue with the debate tomorrow

tizoz
24 Jun 2010 16:30

in fact every country NEEDS poor people to push the economy, imagine if we were all living comfortable what will happen the economy will become stagnant and eventually crash.

South Africans should stop feeling sorry for themselves and stop dragging the past with them and move on with their lives. We need the exposure that comes with hosting such events, yes sadly they come at a price and its a price any emerging country should be prepared to pay if it needs to move forward. 

There I said it shoot me...

blaqueboi
24 Jun 2010 16:32

As A South African I think it qualifies me to say it's STUPID and I will SAY it again it's STUPID. Both logically  and sentimental.

Comparing SA to first world countries is totally narrow-minded. SA is a young democracy and can not aspire to be on the same world with the UK and US. Both this countries don't have millions of civilians dying everyday from unnecessary death. A pandemic like AIDS is manageable but we can't because our health services are failing because there is limited financial support. Now you tell me that anyone in his right mind would not find the fact that we spending millions on games when we can't afford basic services a bit odd.

Maybe I ought to do an article on the misleading thing that everybody is on about. Hosting the world cup will not have as much long term impact as Makisto thinks. In fact if you look at Germany for instance, it's GDP margin only increased by a small margin soon sfter the WC then after eeverybody forgot about the WC and things went back to normal.

The only long term impact the WC will have is The Infrastracture beyond that anybody who believes itherwise is living in a fool's paradise.  By 2012 SA WC will be a distant memory and the focus will be on the next host as it happened with the previous host now that the focus ids on SA.

The notion that investors will flock into SA because some years ago we hosted the WC is ill-informed. In fact even knw the expected in flux of foereign investment has been a disappointment.  Businesses do not invest based on sentiments they invest based on longevity, profitability and reliability. We have to clean our house to attract investors not host major events only. Who will keep this economy going when half of the population is dead because there was no set plan to alleviate the burden of health care. Who will then want to invest in a country that has a low life expectensy?

Biding for the Olympics will be a huge mistake that could see a lot of disgruntled South Africans rebel against our government. Just as a lot of them are disillusioned about the wealth that WC was supposed to bring, by 2018 many will know that having WC or Olympics doesn't mean your life will change.   

SOUTH AFRICAN IS A 3rd World country with 3rd world problems. Before we try and immulate more rich countries let's clean up our country first. Take some notes from Dubai, Monaco and the gulf countries.

Yehake!
24 Jun 2010 16:44

@Blaque  I know things will not miraculously change but  its not like if we do not host the olympic the all of a sudden the health system will beef up or something better will happen.... none of what is will change drastically anyway so why the hell not host it? whats the worst than can happen if we do?

GML
24 Jun 2010 16:56

Valid points made here.

Segololo
24 Jun 2010 16:58

intersting read... very interesting... loving the debates...

blaqueboi
24 Jun 2010 17:13

Yehake, what's the worst that can happen? Ahhh which country have you been living in? Haven't you  noticed that black people in this country riot and destroy government properties when they are not happy with services?

The worst that could happen is inevitable if we continue to blow money on unnecessary luxuries like this. If we host the Olympics after hosting the WC and people still feel left behind then they will definitely be anarchy. Imagine in your house, your mother tells you there is no money for you to go to university and she buys 2 Mercs while you sit around with  no prospect of bettering your life with a decent education.

I just think we should just chill for a decade or two before we over extend ourselves again by hosting another event of this magnitude. Can we just concentrate on making SA the jewel of Africa by being the first in this continent to put our people first before self-enrichment of the elite in the name of "giving SA a good name internationally". Hell let's be the first nation in the WORLD to eradicate unemployment by investing in adequate education and means to empower our citizens.

I would be more proud to live in a country that is envied for having the lowest unemployment rate, literate population, great health care etc NOT the fact that we hosted WC and Olympics in one decade.

Sorry that's just my view.

Kakapana
24 Jun 2010 19:07

Italy is out of the W.C!!!!!!!!! I'm dancing like a white man....

Green.arrow
25 Jun 2010 02:51

This debate is so hard because i personally dont have the facts for and againts the topic. 
But i think that neither extremes of the argument is any good.
Life is a balancing act, and great leadership on our politicians part will be demonstrated by their ability to balance everything: Developing the country,bridging the poor-rich gap, service delivery,  "strengthenig ties" as Zuma has been doing offlate, building a good resume about the country on the global stage (hosting events)....etc. Everything is connected. None is more important than the other. Focussing on one and neglecting the other will result in total failure. Its all about balancing the duties at hand.

Its not the first time, nor will it be the last time that a national intitiative is recieved diffrenetly by the people. Remember  "the rainbow nation ideal", TRC, forgive and forget etc ...even to date people are divided on whether all of this was a good idea or not. I love that those who know the story better will tell you that it was a calculated move what Mandela and them did,not just a sentimental move . All in the interets of stability etc. But ofcourse not everyone agrees, some people felt cheated, sold out etc. Negative and positive perceptions there too. But time will tell whether the good outweighs the bad or not if it hasnt already. And while we wait to see, its only good that we all rally behind the positive outcome, being negative doesnt do us any good.

I would like to believe that those in leadership positions right now have done their maths so that everything concidered the outcome of the WC event will be positive(and there is a lot to concider that some of us cant comprehend thats why we are carefeull when being critical)  

Sentiments aside, I have observed a lot of good things about the WC preparations. 
Yes ..the infrastructural development is a big deal..not to be trivialised because evryone will benefit from that. Atleast the gorvenment was forced by the circumstance to move fast on some services which i doubt they would have taken care of if not for the WC. 
The jobs created, that needs to be appreciated. A lot of people benefited from that. eeven as jobs were being shed and are still being shed in markets that were hard hit by the recession, the WC developments kept a lot of people employed. bla bla
Im looking forward to seeing the One Goal FIFA initiative trully working out. I have watched several documentries so far about how soccer development academies arround the continent are giving many kids hope, we need that.
 
Sometimes we dont appreciate things because they arent doing us directly any good, but there are many people who have benefited and who will continue to benefit from the WC initiative and even from the Olympics should SA bid for it.

If there are things that are negative, i think its only fair that they be pointed out...objectively.
Prof Jansen wrote an article adressing almost similar issue
http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/article516667.ece/Sepp-says-Collect-that-rubbish-

When we point out the negative or fraudulent activities arround the events, we must also point out the positive. And there are as many positives as there are negatives. Its not all black and white.
I trully think we can have the debate without being on either extremes. Its a very depressing way of going about things, unless its a matter of a bitter pill thats hard to swallow?

Green.arrow
25 Jun 2010 03:05

As A South African I think it qualifies me to say it's STUPID and I will SAY it again it's STUPID. Both logically and sentimental. 
AS a South African...its so hard for me to swallow this statement or even attempt to chew it  Blaque.....even after reading the reasons you mention. Ke gore you cannot even identify one good thing?


realist
25 Jun 2010 06:44

Phil, you have not answered my question. Do you think it is sustainable when the 5 million tax payers are supporting the 50 million non tax payers? That is where the problem lies with service delivery. It is just not sustainable.

On the question of the health and education system the problem lies with cadre deployment and not the lack of service delivery. In fact the lack of service delivery lies with this cadre deployment thing. If people were employed purely on merit service delivery will improve drastically. Just go to any municipality and find out if those people employed there have got any glue of what service delivery is.

Better still, go to any mayoral office and find if they know what service delivery means. I’ve been there and all you got see is their lavish office furniture and ordering of lunch. Boy this people can waste tax payer’s money I tell you. These people are only good in holding meetings that never ends and nothing ever comes out those meetings. 

realist
25 Jun 2010 07:09

Both this countries don't have millions of civilians dying everyday from unnecessary death.
If the people running those institutions were employed on merit then the death rate will decrease drastically. Go to any government hospital and check if their telephone bills are less than the resources needed to help the needy. You will be amazed at how they waste tax payer’s money on petty things. Again cadre deployment is to blame.

A pandemic like AIDS is manageable but we can't because our health services are failing because there is limited financial support.
Now you are being academic. How do you do just that if you have stereo types that don’t believe in using protection when they have sex? The government can spent all they want but if society is not willing to adapt and change then it is a fruitless excise. When it comes to aids there is nothing the government can do except provide the ARV’s, but remember it has to be paid for and who will be forking this bill? The 5 million tax payers.

Now you tell me that anyone in his right mind would not find the fact that we spending millions on games when we can't afford basic services a bit odd.
Not every one is sick and in need of service delivery. Should these people also suffer because they must support the poor? Again read what Carino said and revert. 

Not every one is sick and in need of service delivery. Should these people also suffer because they must support the poor? Again read what Carino said and revert. Even the Americans and the UK when they hold these big sporting events you always have these bean counters, NGO’s and the environmentalist bitching and moaning about government wasting tax payer’s. 

Maybe I ought to do an article on the misleading thing that everybody is on about. 
Please do.

Hosting the world cup will not have as much long term impact as Makisto thinks.
How so?

In fact if you look at Germany for instance, it's GDP margin only increased by a small margin soon sfter the WC then after eeverybody forgot about the WC and things went back to normal.
Aren’t you contradicting yourself here? The fact remains that it did go up. Nothing last forever remember!!

pele
25 Jun 2010 07:50

Eish i am hurt by those words these words from tizoz before going any further in ths debate:

in fact every country NEEDS poor people to push the economy, imagine if we were all living comfortable what will happen the economy will become stagnant and eventually crash.
Wow i will not shoot you but i must say you deserve a shot in the head, point blank!
Have you seen how our poeple struugle to have basic needs, meali-mealie, samp etc man i can't believe the are poeple who can ignore the plight of poverty and talk like this. 
As a country with  new democracy and know how it is to starve, we need to bridge the gap bettween the poor and rich, and here it is very wide. This poverty leads to crime, prostituion etc, the country will be ungovernable if our government dont take care of it's PEOPLE. 
and what is the use of having games when your own citizens will make sure they destroy-rob the tourists you bring to watch these games,.

people please count your words, just because you were lucky to be in a better state dont be insensitive about the plight of the poor. one friend of mine said , it looks like south africa is raisng and beoming full of black puppets now i agree.


@realist- Recently Greece was in turmoil and not because they wasted tax payers money but because of the recession. You can do any service delivery 100% but as long as those poor communities are not paying for those services the system will eventually collapse. There is just no way can the 5 million tax payers support the 40 million non tax payers. 

Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic downturn struck. This whisked away a curtain of partly fiddled statistics to reveal debt levels and deficits that exceeded limits set by the eurozone. 
(this is qouted from the greece crisis turmoil questionnare)

i disagree with you on the Greece part, they mismanaged theri funds and when the recession came they were doomed. 
and never ever compare  african state with the european ones please otherwise  we will get sidetracked.

and also dont forget that not only the 5million registered tax payers pay tax, even the ordinary jack and jane get taxed when buying from the retailers, so no SA DOESNT HAVE 5MILLION TAXPAYERS, ALL IT'S 48 million CITIZENS PAY TAX, GO AND CHECK YOUR TILL-SLIPS HOW MUCH MONEY THAT GOES TO YOUR COUNTRY POCKET!!

i say we can bid for these tournaments as long as these sports have their own funds,  and are not waitng for governmant to fund them in buil;ding these facilities, after the loss from SWC we need to breathe and work towards building for our own citizens first. i hope you know Fifa gained not Mzantsi.
 Cape-town has a toliet saga as we peak, to many informal settlements lets clean that and maybe bid later maybe 2025!! it's too early for another tournament and i hope anyway we don't get it.








realist
25 Jun 2010 08:15

The only long term impact the WC will have is The Infrastracture beyond that anybody who believes itherwise is living in a fool's paradise.
Exactly what is it that you want? Do you want this country to be a third world forever?

By 2012 SA WC will be a distant memory and the focus will be on the next host as it happened with the previous host now that the focus ids on SA.
Same can be said when the elections are held and this regime would have been out of power if people were voting with their head instead of their heard. 

The notion that investors will flock into SA because some years ago we hosted the WC is ill-informed.
How so?

In fact even knw the expected in flux of foereign investment has been a disappointment
We are in a global recession and therefore it was expected.

Businesses do not invest based on sentiments they invest based on longevity, profitability and reliability.
So far the government has demonstrated that to the investors, if you disagree provide reasons why. South Africa is stable country unlike Zim. Investors will defiantly come once we are out of recession.

We have to clean our house to attract investors not host major events only.
I agree but not at the expense of not hosting anything. The only thing that worries investors is our labour laws. It is difficult to fire an employee in this country. You got to go up and down with CCMA just to get rid of one employee.

Who will keep this economy going when half of the population is dead because there was no set plan to alleviate the burden of health care.
This economy is driven by the middle class and not the poor folks. Somebody has got to support the poor folks and guess who is doing that; it is the super dupa rich, the rich and the middle class. Now how is the poor folks help in alleviating the problems that SA has?

Biding for the Olympics will be a huge mistake that could see a lot of disgruntled South Africans rebel against our government.
If the middle class is not complaining believe me the government will bid. The poor can’t influence anything since this government is taking care of them by building them RDP houses and providing them with social grants. Mess with the middle class then you will see.

I have said a mouthful let me take a break.






realist
25 Jun 2010 08:20

SA DOESNT HAVE 5MILLION TAXPAYERS, ALL IT'S 48 million CITIZENS PAY TAX, GO AND CHECK YOUR TILL-SLIPS HOW MUCH MONEY THAT GOES TO YOUR COUNTRY POCKET!!
Pele, Basic food stuffs are exempted from tax. Go check the till slips again. How many pay rates and taxes? How many buy are buying pirated goods?

realist
25 Jun 2010 08:22

How many buy are buying pirated goods?
What the hell am saying here!!!

Cande
25 Jun 2010 08:34

LOL i like debates like these.. yes Kakapana im also dancing like a white girl! OUT Italy

pele
25 Jun 2010 08:41

i hope you realise i am talking about VAT here SALES TAX
VAT is when:
The seller charges VAT to the buyer, and the seller pays this VAT to the government. If, however, the purchaser is not an end user, but the goods or services purchased are costs to its business, the tax it has paid for such purchases can be deducted from the tax it charges to its customers. The government only receives the difference; in other words, it is paid tax on the gross margin of each transaction, by each participant in the sales chain. 

What pirated goods, Cd'S and what?

And if our gove can uplift the margin between teh poor and rcih many will be able to pay those rates and taxes.
,

pele
25 Jun 2010 08:42

not sales tax

GML
25 Jun 2010 08:43

Nice article Makisto.

You bloggers make valid points.

I'm very undecided about this topic.

realist
25 Jun 2010 08:45

Pele, If are referring to Vat then ditto.

GML
25 Jun 2010 08:47

The seller charges VAT to the buyer, and the seller pays this VAT to the government. If, however, the purchaser is not an end user, but the goods or services purchased are costs to its business, the tax it has paid for such purchases can be deducted from the tax it charges to its customers. The government only receives the difference; in other words, it is paid tax on the gross margin of each transaction, by each participant in the sales chain.

Economics?Accounting 101? We learn something everyday neh... Class in session!

pele
25 Jun 2010 08:51

so you agree that not 5million citizens pay tax, even jack and jane do noba bona they dont know.

so our government must make sure the gap is not too wide bettween the rich and the poor, i agree with let's clean house first and then we can invite, host anyone to brag about our beautiful country.

i call this country the 'spoilt brats of Africa'

makisto
25 Jun 2010 08:54

Before I continue reading other replies, I would like to comment on GA's comment on 6/25/2010 8:51:07 AM. There are great points you are making there. I am from rural areas and know exactly what poverty means, not having a library, touching a computer the for the very first time at tertiary etc etc. The opportunity the WC presents or the Olympics for that matter, will surely inspire youngsters to do well in sports. Hleng Caster Semenya is brilliant in her field despite having grown up in the dusty village of Limpopo and running on the road not on the stadia or something. The excitement that comes with events like these sure do inspire children to aspire to greater things hence the media came to my primary school built with stones and mud and that sort of gave me direction and determination about a career in the media. It is children from those diasdvantaged communities who will benefit through entering competitions relating to the Olympics and if they make it to another level, they may end up competiting on the venues rennovated by this government. Essentially, you have people from this country who will benefit but not right immediately. You made great and valid points there GA and I agree with you. I just didn't want to disrupted by what other people wrote, now lemme continue reading.

Vesa
25 Jun 2010 09:12

I'm loving this debate!!! Valid points made indeed....but I also refuse to believe that bidding for the 2020 Olympics is a STUPID idea.

@GML....it's actually VAT 101 

makisto
25 Jun 2010 09:14

realist you make valid points and have taken away my questions I had for blaqueboi. By saying Phil is unqualified to make that statement, is not because of your citizenship but because of the statements itself and there is nothing in your arguments that shows attributes of SA being stupid about bidding. Like someone said here, we need to balance and we cannot only give houses, education and all that to the poor and neglect other sectors. I am in no way comparing SA to first world countries but I just wish to point out that we need to have ambitions as a country that one day, even if it's after two centuries, this country will be ranking amongst the best. And doing that starts now. We need to think beyond doing things today and have other things that will make this country a place to be. Having the world in our shores in good for the economy and business in general. Thank you GML, however, it would be nice to hear your thoughts once you make up your mind. I still mantain that hosting events of these nature will put our country on the map and attract investor confidence! The issue of profitability and sustainality, investors can draw from current investors and learn a few lessons.

Vesa
25 Jun 2010 09:18

It is children from those diasdvantaged communities who will benefit through entering competitions relating to the Olympics and if they make it to another level, they may end up competiting on the venues rennovated by this government. 

@ Makisto....I fully agree with you on this one!!! It's the rural villages that tend to benefit from these!! I have family in Rusties....Moruleng to be exact, and it was humbling for me to learn that the England soccer team liased with some of the primary schools in Moruleng and donated funds to them!!  This really made a difference to the schools and inspired the school kids. The kids were invited to come and watch them at their practice games.....can you imagine what that did to those kids? 

realist
25 Jun 2010 09:18

so you agree that not 5million citizens pay tax, even jack and jane do noba bona they dont know.
No, I dont agree.
Let’s say the 5 million that pays taxes were taken out of the equation. How many millions will the government collect from the other 40 million? Will that sustain the country?

Let me put it to you realistically. This month from my pay slip I paid R35 000 in taxes to the tax man. Do you think it is fair? You say the government must try and close the gap between the poor and the rich; how do you propose they do that?

makisto
25 Jun 2010 09:25

@ Vesa This really made a difference to the schools and inspired the school kids. The kids were invited to come and watch them at their practice games.....can you imagine what that did to those kids? 

Though I don't know those kids, one day for sure, I know that there will be an international soccer player from that school. Even if it's just one kid. The long term benefit: international soccer player after SA hosted the WC 20 years ago. Now you call that not benefitting the country and the WC not having long term benefits! Then I don't know what your definition of helping the needy is. Someone said, don't give the man a fish, rather show him how to catch a fish. You cannot always give those kids i.e food parcels, do give them food parcels and teach them about the importance of doing things themselves. What England did is good, they didn't only donate some money, but they took children to come see the them practice so they can see that you can actually have a career as a soccer player.

pele
25 Jun 2010 09:40

realist government can bridge the gap by empoweirng our people, decent free education at a lower level, they way they promise when elections are here. Workign together to eradicate poverty, by giving them izindlu, do projects in townships for skills man. actaully our goverment know how it can bridge the gap as it promises peopele exactly waht they want, they can start by taking action and also be harsh on it's lazy employees.

do i think it's fair tax-man deducted  iR35-000, is this an every month deduction before i answer that. who said life will be fair? tax man feels it is fair to deduct 35 000 from you, my opinion on this will never help in anyway.

this country is mainted very well already, you know that. how many millions the gov will collect hehhehe man we will need to go to the gov bookepers for this one.




Green.arrow
25 Jun 2010 09:41

Its those small things indeed makisto and Vesa. But it seems we dont all see the same things because the argument is that this kinbds of iniyiatives are doing NOTHINg for the poor.....?

Then I don't know what your definition of helping the needy is
im starting to doubt what i thought i understood about the whole concept as well. 

This debate is very disheartening. Its nice though to learn the economics jargon etc.....

realist
25 Jun 2010 09:41

and never ever compare african state with the european ones please otherwise we will get sidetracked.
Pele, I got side tracked. Please explain your statement above.

GML
25 Jun 2010 09:45

Thanks Vesa re: VAT 101.

Shoo, no wonder I didnt go the accounting route!!!

Makisto. I basically think that if the government can make billions of rands available to build stadia then can make billions of rands to build proper schools in rural areas, they can make billions available to equip schools with the necessary resources to produce future leaders.

With that said, I remember once in varsity we we in the auditorium (each chair had it's won light on a rail) for a lecture when one of the students (he was black) opened one of the lights. He opened it and left the light hanging out with wires also hanging out. Now, I asked this guy why he did that. He said he didnt know. I then asked him which high school he was from and he told me (it was a school in the townships- not the best kept school)

I then came to a conclusion that not that these schools are not properly kept, the people using the schools are the ones who deliberately destroy those facilities.

My question is. Should we really help those who don't want to help themselves? Can the country keep making money available to build toilets (example), build schools etc only to have those very people who were being helped destroy them again?

So should we not bid to host the olympics and rather spend money that will be flushed down the toilet instead? I really dont know.

Like I said I'm undecided.

realist
25 Jun 2010 09:45

Pele, what you are saying is that the government must provide manna from heaven and everything will be sorted and the poor now will leave like the middle class. What you just said still has to be paid for by somebody and you know very well who.

pele
25 Jun 2010 10:02

please qoute where i said 'manna', i said exactly what the governemnt promised nje. or it is just an election language?
 i never said anything about classes(middel or high) here, please qoute me before i can be able to engange further realist. 

Pele, I got side tracked. Please explain your statement above. 

pls re-read that
, i did'nt say you sidetracked, i said the debate will get sidetracked as we are debating about South Afruica and can never be compared to the first world countries who have more than 16 years of democracy and establishment.

I then came to a conclusion that not that these schools are not properly kept, the people using the schools are the ones who deliberately destroy those facilities. YOU SHOULD HAVE REASEARCHED OR ENQUIRE FURTHER THAN GENERALISING.




blaqueboi
25 Jun 2010 10:03

Ok I am not gonna go around in circles the whole day so this is my last statement on this issue.

The Stupidity of Bidding

Firstly chances of SA winning the bid to host the Olympics in 2020 are very very slim unless some of the voters in the committee die along the process. Chicago was snubbed so the likelihood of a non-American city hosting the games before an American city can is impossible. The other thing is the popular vote system which will put Africa at a disadvantage. The only way we can end up winning the bid would be on sentiments.... The fact that Africa hasnt hosted the game. Chances are our hosting the WC will put a dent on that as many of the voters will see that as us having gotten the opportunity to host a major event. It's all logistics hence I said it would be stupid. It would be a waste of money to bid now and I will repeat "maybe we should wait a bit longer to bid".

Fuck The Poor!!!

I have to say Realist I am bitterly disappointed in your statements. The Middle Class runs this economy? Are you serious? The labour force is populated by the lower classes. They are the ones in the factory and the mines. They are the ones doing the dirty work and without them you would not have a viable economy. Ignoring their plight would be a dire mistake that will render this nation ungovernable should they decide to retaliate.

I am sorry I guess I was raised differently. I believe that before you try and please the neighbors you first have to make sure that your family is happy. Yes hosting the Olympics will put SA on the map but guess what, so will the scurge of Aids and other problems that will escalate if they are ignored in the name of building SA a BRAND abroad.

Like I said I wont go around in circles on this so I will leave it at that. I think it's a mistake and a waste of money to bid for Olympics when the odds are against us especially so soon after spending all this money on the WC. I also think there would be better use for this money in our public services than building all this facilities that very few people will utilise after these events than building schools and clinic where they are needed.

GML
25 Jun 2010 10:08

YOU SHOULD HAVE REASEARCHED OR ENQUIRE FURTHER THAN GENERALISING.

Research? Well look at how people protest these days. They destroy the very things that are supposed to improve their lives. They burn things and throw stones and then complain that they their roads have potholes. Who put those big rocks to close the roads during protests?. I suppose those big rocks and burning tires are not responsible for the  potholes.

Research? It's in the news everyday. The very people who complain are teh very people who destroy facilities etc.

so I'm generalising based on what I see on the news in all provinces.

sarocks
25 Jun 2010 10:12

hahahaha STUPIDITY of BIDDING. Tru dat. why would I want to bid for something that I would most likely not win. Haiiii STUPID maaaaan.

decoupage
25 Jun 2010 10:13

So Phil You think we should never host big events because we have poor people?

pele
25 Jun 2010 10:22

can bridge the gap by empoweirng our people, decent free education at a lower level, they way they promise when elections are here. Workign together to eradicate poverty, by giving them izindlu, do projects in townships for skills man. actaully our goverment know how it can bridge the gap as it promises peopele exactly waht they want, they can start by taking action and also be harsh on it's lazy employees. 

I also can't believe  Realist thinks that when government is doing this it is manna, hayi we learn everyday.



blaqueboi
25 Jun 2010 10:22

I never said we should never host the Olympics. I just highlighted the fact that bidding in 2020 would be a futile move unless a miracle happens. I am happy that our nation can attract major interest however I also look at facts that some people in comfortable position choose to ignore.

I know when I say this some people will say I am sensationalising the situation BUT SA is a ticking bomb. The gab between the "haves" and the "have not" is getting wider every year and the people are getting fed up. If this situation persists, the townships will burn and unfortunately this image that we trying to build by blowing money on sentimental things will be shred to piesces.

By hosting these events back-2-back will give the impression that the money is there and the government just doesn't care. I made an example about a parent telling her child that there is no money to send him to University and yet she buys Mercs.

pele
25 Jun 2010 10:29

GML most schools here are not complaining about lights or broken toilets thy need decent education not the education of working at Shoprite(no offence to Shoprite employees) after matric. let's have a curricullum tht can take our township kids to be the future leaders tomorrow(, we can do tht, as we have so much money to spend knowing for sure we wont get returns.

decoupage
25 Jun 2010 10:37

I was baffled… no shocked… to find out just yesterday that a few days ago AIDS activists marched to the US consulate to beg the Obama Administration to provide more health parcels for the treatment, care and prevention for Malaria, TB and Aids. I found it appalling that we cannot “afford” to provide this to our people and yet we are more than happy to blow millions to appease the international soccer lovers community.

DISGRACEFUL

GML most schools here are not complaining about lights or broken toilets thy need decent education

AMEN

makisto
25 Jun 2010 10:39

Last time I checked, the government allocates budgets to rehabilitate and educate criminals in SA prisons, build houses in poor villages and for squatter capmers, build schools for poor communities, build new clinics, plazas (shopping centres). Sorry I am only saying these things because I see them happening back home in my village. Since 2007, I have seen a new, bigger and better clinic, new high school, never seen before plaza in a rural area and a whole lot of other rgings. Yes the roads withing the home steads are not as great but at least the government is trying. Phil is the one who wrote a little while back that the government cannot achieve everything is 16 years and in fact acknowledges that more still needs to be done, i.e, in my village, improve the roads etc etc. Yes there are other villages that have none of these but someone here wrote about the failure that comes with employing one's friends and family because you feel sorry for them.

In essence, what I am saying is, there is money allocated for various projects and the pronvicial as well as local government are not using it. During Mbazima Shilowa's tenure as Gauteng premier, there was over R3m for many millions allocated for housing in one financial year that was unused. Should we not bid for the 2020 Olympics because the Gauteng provinvial gov couldn't spend its budget?

poshspice
25 Jun 2010 10:49

REALIST: On the question of the health and education system the problem lies with cadre deployment and not the lack of service delivery. In fact the lack of service delivery lies with this cadre deployment thing. If people were employed purely on merit service delivery will improve drastically. Just go to any municipality and find out if those people employed there have got any glue of what service delivery is.

I agree, the main problem is incompetence and corruption, no matter how much money can to directed towards service delivery, if it is not properly spent we will always be working backwards this includes service providers who delivery services of poor quality like housing....

decoupage
25 Jun 2010 10:49

@Makisto..... I think what Phil and Pele ( can't blv this two agree on anything ) are saying is that we have the world cup now which is great mara do we really need to be hosting another costly even so soon after the WC? When our education and health system is in shumbles. I think that is what I am getting from Phil. We have a 10% chance of winning the bid so why waste the money on trying when we can put it to better use. Pele on the other hand seems to be agreeing with Phil that more needs to be done in our country before we start wasting money on Olympics. Education is very important for the advancement of any country not hosting WC & Olympics.

decoupage
25 Jun 2010 10:50

..... event .....

pele
25 Jun 2010 10:51

makisto i went to cover a story at a meeting between Ivory Park community and the Human Settlement guys from Mr. Tokyo's office-- they said the government does'nt have money it is still raising funds for building or moving people from the iward 79 informal settelemnt. Mind you these poeple have been living under these teething conditions for years. the faces of teh peopel there were so sad, you can see they really need to live decently by working man.

I say let's clean house first and yes in the future we will bid for these tournaments it's too early after this WC. Recently Eskom had to go and borrow money to keep it's house functioning, so do you really think we have money to host and build for nothing(no profit)?

makisto
25 Jun 2010 11:06

Pele, my point here is if we do win to host the 2020 Olympics, people from the very same informal settlement will benefit. It is indeed sad that people are living in those kind of conditions and have been there for years. It is unarguable that within the Human Settlements department, there is some sort of corruption and people are manipulating systems so they can benefit financially. Yes we do need to clean house but that doesn't mean we shouldn't bid. Like I said in the article, it remains to be seen whether SA will win the bid to host the event. blaqueboi's notion that if SA wins will be on sentiments not on merit is misinformed because I believe there are many things that go into consideration before awarding a bid than  just mere sentiments.

@decoupage 
It didn't go unnoticed and I consciously avoided to comment on the matter.

poshspice
25 Jun 2010 11:07

GMLI then came to a conclusion that not that these schools are not properly kept, the people using the schools are the ones who deliberately destroy those facilities.

My question is. Should we really help those who don't want to help themselves? Can the country keep making money available to build toilets (example), build schools etc only to have those very people who were being helped destroy them again?

So should we not bid to host the olympics and rather spend money that will be flushed down the toilet instead? I really dont know. 

A good point, we are self destructive, I went to my old high school last year and I was very dissapointed and hurt to see structures destroyed...this is 2009 with the  democratic government in place!  I was shocked..

Then you have irresponsible citizens who continue to father (males) and fall pregnant(women) knowing their HIV status, don't attend antenatal clinics and give birth to HIV positive babies who eventually become orphans that government have to support despite all the millions spent on awareness campains and education and services made available...

the list is endless. Yes we don't have a choice but to take care of the poor who are making themselved poorer, but honestly those who are responsible shouldn't be denied an opportunity to  experiences the once in a lifetime events to be held in one's country such as the WC and the Olympics  

makisto
25 Jun 2010 11:11

those who are responsible shouldn't be denied an opportunity to experiences the once in a lifetime events to be held in one's country such as the WC and the Olympics 
Poshspice
, I think this is what I have been trying to say all these time and not forgetting tha those irresponsible male and females' children will benefit in a long term.

pele
25 Jun 2010 11:11

makisto how on earth are the poor going to benefit, when they could'nt benefit at all in the Phillip era? 

once again i repeat Posh it's not about the structures it's about the contenet in teh curricullum.

Green.arrow
25 Jun 2010 11:12

pele..its never nice to hear of such report (Ivory Park community and the Human Settlement guys from Mr. Tokyo's office), we know there are many such cases all arround the country. Not to be trivialised at all. 
I just wish that such news could be reported in balance proportion with the good things that have been done so far. So that we are not just taken by the euphoria and forget about things that still need to be done, but also so that we appreciate the significant "house cleaning" that has been done thus far. 

Education, housing, service delievery, those are issues we have been struggling with before the WC,...even without the WC,  we still would be struggling with them, something else would be used as a skapegoat if not the WC or hosting events.

makisto
25 Jun 2010 11:18

Pele I have stated how children from those places can get determination from that small gesture in Rusternburg for instance. Hence I liked the idea of being in the media after a media house visited my muddy primary school back in 1992 and ended up having a career in the media.

GML
25 Jun 2010 11:21

GML most schools here are not complaining about lights or broken toilets thy need decent education

How will you do your job properly when you have a computer that is always jammed. A mouse that is not working and a server that is always faulty? Will you be able to provide proper quality work with no proper resources or structures? will you deliver quality work when you have no office/open plan to work in?

No, teachers wont be able to do their best when they have a classroom full of kids (45 kids per class) who have to share tables, when they don't have enough text books (the very textbooks student burn when they feel like it), when the science teachers don't have apparatus in their labs for science purposes.

Yes, decent education. But you need a proper built standing school, with enough tables and chairs, first.

You make sure that the cracked walls in your house are fixed first, you make sure the leaking tap is sorted first, you make sure that the plugs are all working first before you buy expensive furniture. Otherwise the furniture will look just as cheap because of all these other things mentioned above.

I hoe you get my point!

pele
25 Jun 2010 11:26

Education, housing, service delievery, those are issues we have been struggling with before the WC,...even without the WC, we still would be struggling with them, something else would be used as a skapegoat if not the WC or hosting events

The reason WC is a 'scapegoat' in this instance is because of the billions spent on this tournament GA,we need to invest not throw money around, SAFA is a very powerful brand and have loads of cahs on it's own, the government should have made sure they sit down and check their books first before lending any help on this tournament. hence i am saying let's hope the Olympics fund themselves without us taxpyers contributing. Safa is going to pay teh boys 3million- somethign to Bafana for teh gaols scored in teh touranament. so it can stand on it's own.

i appreciate the gove of their hard work and i make sure i air that view, to be honst government is trying only these spoilt brat ministerand their employees are dragging it's name down.

man i am trying to type fast, in this company only one computer has unlimited internet so let me give others a chance.

Nice artilce Makisto!!

poshspice
25 Jun 2010 11:34

let's have a curricullum that can take our township kids to be the future leaders tomorrow(, we can do tht, as we have so much money to spend knowing for sure we wont get returns. 

Pele, on this one the problem is deeper, we'll need to do an overhaul of the education system, starting with the teachers themselves,lets ask ourselves if we have the right  caliber of teachers who can actually teach even that curriculum. These teachers are the product of second rate education...so some of these poor kids in rural areas and townships are stuck with them

It goes back incompetence and unfortunately as a country if we were to employ people on merit, a lot of black people would be jobless..

we need to look beyond money and go back to basics-dedication, passion and hard work .

pele
25 Jun 2010 11:35

GML- i aMm a product of that exact school you describing there, and to avoid bragging i have done well for myself. because i had perfect teachers even though we had nothing, so if teachers and students today are going to look for windows they can raise that money themselves like we did in our days. What we wanted was a good education(decent) not things we can work for ourselves, do fundraising, netball soccer tournaments and build tolitets for yourselves..gosh those were the days. Bye ppl next week.

GML
25 Jun 2010 11:44

Good for you Pele.

Having such resources would help as well.

Unless you're saying it's ok not to have those things. If that is the case then Government can go spend money on hosting events

pele
25 Jun 2010 11:54

nope the gov can go spend money in text books, changing the entire curricullum and teaching (posh)teachers  how to present ths new system..thn after the hosting game...

realist
25 Jun 2010 13:46

Pele, did you understand what poshpiece and GML have just said. You keep hopping about decent education and forgetting that it does not come cheap. Everyone wants decent education but somebody has got to pay for it.

Why are we asking the government to provide everything for free, where the hell will this government get the money from? Last time I checked the government was the people unless it has changed since Africans took over.

People want free housing, free education, free health, social grants and the list is endless. Where will the government get the money to fund these socio economic problems?

Phil, whether you like it or not, the middle class run this country. What you said about the labours in other sectors can be easily be replaced by machines. You may not like it but it is fact and it is happening as we speak.

Btw Phil, read again what poshpiece and GML have said. You have not provided any alternative to what they have said.

Bottom line, everything comes at a price. Easy criticizing but hard coming with alternative.

Enuff said on this topic.

pele
25 Jun 2010 15:31

i though nam ndigqibile but i need to ANSWER you ths before I exit nam kule-topic

Where will the government get the money to fund these socio economic problems? 
it will get IT  frm thE same hole, it got it from when it buiLt stadiums with billions kodwa ithi ayinamali.

i understood evrything said by t Posh and Gml and i am sure thy understood me too.



maddie
25 Jun 2010 17:39

GML - u sound like someone who grew up privileged and that makes u arrogant sometimes.

am with blaque an pele on this one.

i also agree  with the balancing act but guys we need to set our priorities straight.

makisto - u r one of the lucky few who managed to make a good life for himself coming from the school u jst explained and am surprised that you think the way u do.  

we don't need 1 kid to emerge from a rural/township school and be something, we need more than that and that can only happen if our government  can concentrate on providing quality education for the less privileged.

it's easy for u guys while sitting behind your leather chairs in an air-conditioned office, having wimpy for lunch and knocking off at work getting into ur car going to ur decent townhouse to say we need to bid for these events cos some of u will b able to even afford to go tto hese games unlike some people.

am not sayin u should not enjoy the money that u work or not work hard for but please think about those less fortunate, think about how spending money on these events will affect them.

most of u r on a high and it will eventually wear off.

am waiting for the world cup post mortem maybe that will help some of u to wake up and smell the roses



makisto
28 Jun 2010 08:29

@maddie
makisto - u r one of the lucky few who managed to make a good life for himself coming from the school u jst explained and am surprised that you think the way u do.

I'm also exiting from this topic now. I may be one of the lucky few but there is nothing surprising with how I think. We need to develop this country and you got my point about balancing. I asserted that SA must host these tournaments because it will have a positive impact on young children. For me to say one child from Rusternburg will be a soccer star, is because I didn't wanna be over ambitious but something will definitetly happen. The government cannot do everything by itslef.


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